Simply Koi and More Koi

Hi Dave,

Great news mate and that is looking a lot better and compared with the original wound the whole thing is looking a lot less as i would say "angry" and begging to heal.

CT is a great tool when used correctly and in the right situation i think is hard to be and IMO better than antibiotics sometimes due to the way it works and how easy it is to use even as you have found out at stronger doses. The CT will also help cauterize the wound as well so not only is it knocking back the bacteria but it is also going to work on the wound so a bit like a double edged sword in a way.

I also think that people sometimes reach for the antibiotics thinking it will be a quick fix and a quick jab into the pec and all sorted but this is not always the case and can also cause other problems. Most antibiotics have a different PH and couple that with puncturing the scion/muscle then this can also lead to bacterial problems or damaged muscle if not carried out correctly where as CT is easier to use and control.

Anyway enough of me gassing on well done Dave looking much better and top marks for hanging on in there mate

Gazza wrote:Hi Dave,

Great news mate and that is looking a lot better and compared with the original wound the whole thing is looking a lot less as i would say "angry" and begging to heal.

CT is a great tool when used correctly and in the right situation i think is hard to be and IMO better than antibiotics sometimes due to the way it works and how easy it is to use even as you have found out at stronger doses. The CT will also help cauterize the wound as well so not only is it knocking back the bacteria but it is also going to work on the wound so a bit like a double edged sword in a way.

I also think that people sometimes reach for the antibiotics thinking it will be a quick fix and a quick jab into the pec and all sorted but this is not always the case and can also cause other problems. Most antibiotics have a different PH and couple that with puncturing the scion/muscle then this can also lead to bacterial problems or damaged muscle if not carried out correctly where as CT is easier to use and control.
Anyway enough of me gassing on well done Dave looking much better and top marks for hanging on in there mate

Gazza thanks to you and Duncan It now looks as though things are on the up. I will carry on with a few scrapes just to make sure that nothing else apears or the flukes return. Nothing so far.touch wood. I now see where you are coming from with your last statement and have to admit I have been guilty of exactly that. From now on I will think twice before reaching for the needles. Although I probably only had to use antibiotics 4 or 5 times in 15 years of keeping koi ( and still a beginner compared to you guys)Best Regards Dave

dave have a read of this http://www.koiquest.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 29&t=11349 might help you understand C/T

dunc

Cheers Duncan. It was exactly that thread which made me start this thread. I just wished I had gone with it, rather than be persuaded by my local koi dealer to go down the salt, combat and antibiotic route, none of which I would have employed if it weren,t for the fear of fin rot. I have learnt a lot on this road and probably got a long way to go. Thanks once again. I will still keep you guys posted on developments from time to time. Best REgards Dave

Hi Dave,

You have been keeping koi longer than i young many as i think i started in 2002 but just had a lot of bad luck at first and thanks to Duncan a lot of practice at the hands of someone who knows his stuff and think of my self as very fortunate indeed to have had such a teacher

When reading your post above it got me thinking when Duncan was helping me with a couple of Showa that started to fall apart with fin rot and i must of sedated and trimmed the fish many many times and after a lot of time and treatment unfortunately they never made it (which was always going to be the case i know now) due to their week immune system and condition. The thing is just from that experience i had learned so much not just sedating and trimming but also how to handle the fish and examine and all sorts which have stood me in good stead over the years and your situation will be doing the same for you mate thats for sure.

Gazza wrote:Hi Dave,

You have been keeping koi longer than i young many as i think i started in 2002 but just had a lot of bad luck at first and thanks to Duncan a lot of practice at the hands of someone who knows his stuff and think of my self as very fortunate indeed to have had such a teacher

When reading your post above it got me thinking when Duncan was helping me with a couple of Showa that started to fall apart with fin rot and i must of sedated and trimmed the fish many many times and after a lot of time and treatment unfortunately they never made it (which was always going to be the case i know now) due to their week immune system and condition. The thing is just from that experience i had learned so much not just sedating and trimming but also how to handle the fish and examine and all sorts which have stood me in good stead over the years and your situation will be doing the same for you mate thats for sure.

Thats for sure. I have even managed to carry out a couple of gill snips which have gone well ( but didn,t find anything) still have never found them damn costia, no matter how hard I look.( hence my previous thread) can I be so lucky never to have had costia in all those years keeping koi, shurely not?
For some reason when ever I have had to treat a koi for wounds on a few occations the koi have developed fin rot, usually I have managed to save the koi with antibiotics but now I am wondering if I have or had a more deep routed problem. The fin rot usually becomes apparant after treatment through stress?? I have also had one or two koi over the past couple of years in spring which have gone a bit quiet in the spring and gone in the corner on there own, but have recovered after a salt bath or two. All this time whenever this happens I am thinking costia( can,t find anything with scrapes) and have been guilty of pping the pond without knowing what is exactly going on.Sometimes this helps, sometimes it does not.I have also had a few koi, which have felt a bit dry/rough see previous thread.These koi now all seem to be OK
I am meticuless when it comes to cleanliness and I even remove all my K1 to have a look in the bottom of my filters a couple of times a year. I have a BB3 which unfortunately I cannot see inside but I backflush it on a daily basis. I have maintained ORP levels 350mv and a TDS 75ppm ( tap water 60ppm)for the past few years so If I have or had a more deep routed problem, Hell I don,t know what it is.All in all I think most of my koi are quite healthy and are growing well but this underlying fin rot has eaten into my brain on occation.

Hi Dave,

It may well of been from the stress of winter or something or even a fish with a low immune system as some will behave differently to others it may even be age as i must admit i am a nit slower in the winter

I had a few koi looking slow this spring which had been sort of sulking compared to how they normally are but i did keep my cover on longer this year and wondered if this was the reason as they didn't see day light as quick as normal

Hi Dave

I am so pleased that your Sanke is doing so well, and no matter how strong her will to live is without the right care and attention she would proberly never of made it, so you have a lot to be proud of. It is amasing how some Koi are just so much more determined to survive, Gazza has said about low immunity, but I am wondering why the higher grade Koi always seem to surcome easier than others. I had a female Chagoi who went through so much even surviving a concrete poisoning she got to 77.5cms of which I was so pleased with as I had got her when she was a wee 10cms only to lose her to being egg bound. As Koi keepers our main objective is to keep our Koi well and healthy, I met Bob Hart who introduced me to Gazza then Duncan and it has been the best thing I have ever done, meeting these 3 gentleman, through Duncan I have learnt so much and I keep learning, Bob started my interest in Koi health but Duncan took it to another level and I will always be so grateful to Duncan for that.

As to costia have a look at this, I don't know if you have seen this before but it may help in the future http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBMPsXr0abo

I hope everything keeps going well for you and please keep us upto date with how things are going

Hi Kim,

You are to kind young lady

The higher the quality koi the harder the buggers are to keep its a bit like pedigree dogs they will have issues and have to be catered for just like our fish unfortunately.

kimr wrote:Hi Dave

I am so pleased that your Sanke is doing so well, and no matter how strong her will to live is without the right care and attention she would proberly never of made it, so you have a lot to be proud of. It is amasing how some Koi are just so much more determined to survive, Gazza has said about low immunity, but I am wondering why the higher grade Koi always seem to surcome easier than others. I had a female Chagoi who went through so much even surviving a concrete poisoning she got to 77.5cms of which I was so pleased with as I had got her when she was a wee 10cms only to lose her to being egg bound. As Koi keepers our main objective is to keep our Koi well and healthy, I met Bob Hart who introduced me to Gazza then Duncan and it has been the best thing I have ever done, meeting these 3 gentleman, through Duncan I have learnt so much and I keep learning, Bob started my interest in Koi health but Duncan took it to another level and I will always be so grateful to Duncan for that.

As to costia have a look at this, I don't know if you have seen this before but it may help in the future http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBMPsXr0abo

I hope everything keeps going well for you and please keep us upto date with how things are going

Kimr
I have seen a few videos of costia, but that is a very good one so a big thankyou and I will kepp it in my favorite link. I am pretty sure I would have seen costia if my koi had it unless the costia were hiding somewhere like the gills. I too have lost a few of my favorite koi over the years and thast is why I am always willing to learn as much as I can to try and prevent this happening again. Sadly, like you say some just seem to give up the gost and we can never figure out why?? Sometimes I wounder if it is internal but have never carried out a post mortem as yet.
Best Regards Dave

Another Update
All koi are up and feeding well. The sanke too. There is some veining on the white areas on one or two koi otherwise they are looking fine. However there is one koi which has had a wound which occurred last autum which looked to have healed but then knocked itself during the fluke outbreak. I have attempted to tropical treatment prior to the CT treatments . Some healing has taken place but not totally whited over.
Due to the above concerns. I have now been wondering wether my water is less than perfect. The only thing I can think of is the bubblbead. (hence the other thread). I am hopeing now that improving the water will help the healing process along.My ORp readings have taken a bit of a hit of late with all the treatments but hoping they will gradually return to normal with water changes 24/7 ( about 10% per day)
Rightly or wrongly I have not looked at the sanke since the last photo as I thought I would give her a break for a while before taking another look.

Hello all
I have a few new photos for Duncan and you good selves to look at unfortunatly I having problems logging onto Photobucket.( don,t you just love computers) Any help to get these on here would be appreciated.
Anyway the wound is 100% better and totally covered in new skin and the dry area is less dry and covered with healthy mucus. The wound has still got a couple of red areas but I am really pleased it has gone so far. Not sure if I am out the woods yet with one or two other issues. hopefully I can get these photos to Duncan and he can advise accordingly.Best REgards Dave

here are the latest photos I have blown them up as best I can without going out of focus.Let me know what you think

Hi Dave

That is such good progress, considering how angry it was and so deep she has done remarkably well, with all your love care and attention. Unless something awful happens it looks like she should make a full recovery lets keep all fingers and toes crossed that she behaves herslef and doesn't perform any somersaults or such like.

This has been such a bad year for issues but I think a pat on the back is deserved both to you and the Sanke

kimr wrote:Hi Dave

That is such good progress, considering how angry it was and so deep she has done remarkably well, with all your love care and attention. Unless something awful happens it looks like she should make a full recovery lets keep all fingers and toes crossed that she behaves herslef and doesn't perform any somersaults or such like.

This has been such a bad year for issues but I think a pat on the back is deserved both to you and the Sanke

Not forgetting Duncan & Gazza for all the help and support.