WHAT PUMP SIZE FOR TT ?

[mio]

Hi Guys ..

Being from Venus and a little clueless where pond gadgets and gizzmo`s are concerned (learning slowly though) I need to know how much water maximum can i pump through this TT please

[Bob Hart]

Mio,

A TT (Trickle Tower) is supposed to be exactly that, a trickle. Therfore a low out put pump with a spreader bar at the top so that the flow is well ditributed across your chosed media. TT's are generally used to reduce Nitrate, but they will still have normal biological filtration, but have to be used as an addition to normal biological filtration.

Alternatevly, showers have a far greater flow and you cant put enough through a shower. The shower will gas off ammonia due to the high flows and the crashing of the water and therefore reduce the load on any pond, as well as having a high biological treatment in itself. Showers can be used as single source filtration, unlike TT's, unless you had loads of TT's.

So it does depend on what you are going to use it for in reality. And as for a TT pump for the unit you have - no idea

[carlejo]

Bob.... can you give a brief explanation how a TT lowers nitrates, I have recently had massive BW problems solved by cloverleaf blanket answer, but I've got a feeling it will come back..........which is better to reduce nitrates, TT or shower ?
thanks
Carl

[mio]

Hi Bob..
Thank`s for that - I only need to filter 800 galls with it and it measures 42" X 20" I just wanted to push as much water through it as it would allow basically ..

There are no Nitrates/Phosphates in the tap water ( just pollution elements i can`t test for ) so i don`t usually have Nitrate problems in the pond ..

Obviously BAKKI`S rule supreme -I just can`t afford one ..

Carl ..
Do you have excessive Phosphates in the tap/Pond water as these contribute significantly to the B-Weed problem too ..

[Bob Hart]

Carl,

I'm certainly no scientist, but I think like this.

Ammonia gets converted in a biological filter by bacteria into Nitrite, further bacteria convert the Nitrite into Nitrate. This is the well known Nitrogen cycle. So lots of Koi and food, eventually ends up as Nitrate!

Now with a shower, if you pass a whole load of water over a shower, where it is being aerated very heavily, some ammonia gets gassed off. If it is gassed off, then there will be no Nitrite and therefore Nitrate. Less Nitrate, less food for blanket weed.
Phosphates are a different thing and could come through in tap water top up's. If you was to use RO water, mixed with purified tap water, then the Phosphates should again be reduced. Even some of the purifiers will naturally reduces phosphates, through the carbon in the filters.

Now not being a scientist, I just hope I've picked up the right thing here - that Ammonia is gassed off.

Nitrates can also be reduced through water changes, if the water contains less Nitrate than the pond water - soem doesnt! Legal level of tap water if a Nitrate level of 50, some tap water is around this level though.

A trcikle Tower has water passing over the media slowly and the slow moving water allows 'other bacteria' to use it up - havent the faintest how though, but someone on here will. It probably explains it all in Duncan's book as well.

[mio]

Hi ..

Just read this - FASCINATING http://www.koiandponds.com/tricklefilter.htm

[carlejo]

Thanks Mio/Bob.....Mio, what part of Wales are you ?..... I'm in Newport, apparently it very good soft water here but even softer in West Wales...... I have been told by a very knowlegable local koi keeper that phospahtes and nitrates in the tap water could possibly be my problem......I've recently acquired a hanna test meter and have only got pH reagents, the reagenst are quite expensive so I think the nest thing on the cards is buy reagents to test for phosphates/nitrates......ammonia/nitrite are excellent, but nitrate, that's a different thing......... when I came back from hols a few weeks ago there were very thick strands coming off pond walls, approx 3-4 foot in length!!........

I don't really want to go down the RO route(bit confusing and expensive for me).......would a TT/shower of BHM be beneficial ?
thanks
Carl

ps......Bob.... Dave's pond is succesfully flowcoated now, we only have to plumb filters together and get pumps in place then it won't be long...... doing some work on it this pm

[mio]

Hi Carl ..
I live near Bridgend and my tap water is diabolocal - soft i can live - polluted is another ball game - ( did anyone catch the news bulletin last night ) i hope yours is better ..

BHM > the best TT/BAKKI media there is - Just too darned expensive ..

You don`t need to run R/O if your tap water is similar to mine - the KH/GH values in this are less than the mixed water those running R/O are achieving ..

Nitrate/Phosphate test kits are very cheap until you can buy the Hanna reagents - as said earlier my Nitrate/phosphate values from the tap are 0 - that said though feeding 3 times daily will ensure there is plenty in the pond - this is utilised efficiently enough for my test kit values to read 0 for both as they are consumed effectively by both the Weed (before i killed it) and the numerous higher plant species i have in both ponds ..
http://www.pond-doctor.co.uk/longwhatisblanketweed.html

[eds]

Hate to break some bubbles here guys but high levels of Nitrate and Phosphate do not cause algae in typical freshwaters, it's just that the algae can utilise them if nothing else does. I have a number of planted tanks and actually add Potassium Nitrate and Potassium Phosphate (among other nutrients) to the water and the tank is basically algae free (I have a bit of green spot algae on the front glass and some tight red algae growing slowly on some cobbles).

Ammonia is the biggest trigger of algae closely followed by instability. Once the conditions settle down then the algae tend to get outcompeted by higher plants (if you have them) as the stable conditions favour more effective plants that can collect more nutrients/light/CO2. In a pond, emersed plants with their roots in the water will always be able to outgrow algae that will be limited by the lower CO2 levels in water than in the atmosphere, they are just much slower to react to changeable conditions and flushes of nutrients, light and temperature that our climate produces. I use a UV only when I really have to in Spring to knock the green water back to help the higher plants re-establish. I turned it on for 5 days a couple of weeks ago and that should be it for this year.

Of course the big problem in koi ponds is that very few people have any plants at all to outdo the algae and the algae will then fill in and take-over. Trying to limit nutrients will always be hard in an enviroment such as a koi pond where there are lots of things shoving ammonia into the pond every day. Test kits are also very inaccurate at the lower ranges especially unless calibrated. You can do this with know concentrations made up from dry fertilisers but it's a PITA. Softer water will reduce the carbonates in the water which some plants can utilise to get CO2 by a process caused biogenic decalification. I suspect blanket weed may be able to do something similar. Carbon shouldn't remove phosphate from water either, but some are sold as phosphate free where it's important for marine tanks.

[mio]

Hi Ed ..
My both ponds are crammed with Plants (no aquatic compost) and i have had the annual Algal bloom and B-Weed - admittedly Params PH in particular has been unstable recently but prior to this Params were rock solid and still the Weed would have taken over if left untreated ..

Have to agree that Ammonia is the Nutrient of choice for most AQUATIC greenery but i doubt a well established Bio-film would leave sufficient quantities of this or Nitrite for that matter for the Weed to proliferate the way that it did in my pond and Carls by the sound of things ..

Last year i artificially hardened the water up to 10 of both KH/GH believing that this would assist the higher Plant species which would outgrow the Weed - but no it didn`t ..
The water was then diluted back down to 3KH/GH and still the Weed grew ..

Does anyone know how much water i can pump through the TT please before we get sidetracked again - it`s just that i need to buy the pump ASAP to get the Koi out of the lURGY RIDDEN POND .. (no offense intended Ed)

[eds]

Sorry for the sidetrack Mio. Last thing I promise, but it's the instability and the ammonia that lead to the algae, not nitrate and phosphate.

The TT should help with that and, as you want to gas off as much ammonia as possible, I'd stick as much water over it as possible like a shower. Surely slow rates reducing nitrate is only down to de-nitrification and this is done in anoxic envrionments, not a TT with all that atomospheric oxygen?

[mio]

Thank`s Ed ..
I was referring to this article http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biolo ... ration.htm when i spoke of the Bio-film - all these Plants took hours to assimilate Ammonia whereas the Nitrfiers assimilate in seconds - when the Ammonia wasn`t available as you suggested earlier other Nutrients (Nitrate etc) were utilised instead when there was no alternative as happens in our ponds ..

Totally agree with fast flow rates through TT`S - Just read an article by a certain CHEMIST who endorses this and is why i want to try the Lava Rock/Carbon media combination ..http://www.nevadawatergardens.com/biofount.htm

Any idea how much flow the 40X20 inch TT will take - i`d like to pump 1600 galls through it ..

[eds]

Totally agree with fast flow rates through TT`S - Just read an article by a certain CHEMIST who endorses this and is why i want to try the Lava Rock/Carbon media combination ..http://www.nevadawatergardens.com/biofount.htm

Any idea how much flow the 40X20 inch TT will take - i`d like to pump 1600 galls through it ..

I reckon it's the outlet that'll really govern the flow rate. How large is the exit pipe? I have a trickle filter made from a large plastic water tank with Bioballs in and simply chuck all the water from my filter over it (about 2,200gph) as it has a 3" outlet.

The lava rock sounds good (I toyed with that rather than Bioballs for mine), but can't see the point of the carbon as it's adsorption properties will be quickly used up and then it simply becomes another biological media that will break down more quickly then rock I would have thought.

[shaun18]

Hi Mio
I did have my TT for sale in the forum For Sale section but no one (local) seemed interested. I didn't realize before I removed it how much difference it made. I had recently increased my bio capacity which is why I decided to sell it. I had kept the media submerged when I advertised it, but with no takers it was re-instated on the same aquamax 6000. Nitrate has fallen from 100mg/l to 25mg/l in just 3 days. To be honest I had not checked to notice it had risen since removal.
Size is 3 foot high by 10 inch diameter and contains 25 lts Blagdon Trickle Tower Media (just under half full).

Hope this helps

[boogatee]

Can someone explain how a TT works to reduce nitrate?

Mio, this article " http://www.koiandponds.com/tricklefilter.htm " contradicts itself