Hi all
I'm considering building a block and fibreglass growing on tank of about 1,000 gals in my shed. There is a fairly substantial concrete floor (was originally built to house a herd of cows during the winter). Which of the following do you think would be the best course of action;
a. Build the tank directly onto the existing concrete floor.
b. Use formwork to create a concrete pad as a foundation for the tank on top of the existing floor (if so would I need to use rebar?).
c. Hack up the existing concrete for the area of the tank and create a new concrete base.
Sorry if this is a dumb question. I have no building experience and I was going to use this project for experience of using blocks for a new pond build in the Spring.
Thanks
Jon W.
Possibly stupid question about concrete
Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
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Gazza
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Hi Jon,
First off you lucky bugger having all that room
I would leave the flow as it is and lay the pipework on the floor (BD) then make this your new concrete base and build up from there
ps:
I would make it bigger with all that space (yes this is the guy who said don't go to big on your main pond)
First off you lucky bugger having all that room
I would leave the flow as it is and lay the pipework on the floor (BD) then make this your new concrete base and build up from there
ps:
I would make it bigger with all that space (yes this is the guy who said don't go to big on your main pond)
Hi Gazza
As soon as I posted, I realised I'd made a bit of a faux pas re. a bottom drain. It's got to be answer "b" hasn't it?
I'm a bit wary of making it a bit bigger re. running costs. I also have a 300 gal QT (not yet in operation) to be used as a hospital tank.
What do you think would be a good tradeoff between optimum size and running costs?
Regards
Jon W.
As soon as I posted, I realised I'd made a bit of a faux pas re. a bottom drain. It's got to be answer "b" hasn't it?
I'm a bit wary of making it a bit bigger re. running costs. I also have a 300 gal QT (not yet in operation) to be used as a hospital tank.
What do you think would be a good tradeoff between optimum size and running costs?
Regards
Jon W.
Hi Jon
What is the construction of the shed Jon? Specifically how well is it insulated and how big is it - how much air will your GO tank have to heat?
Any chance of partitioning off an area for a fish house? If you can keep the heat in then 2000g may not cost that much more to run than a thousand.
Regards
Dave
What is the construction of the shed Jon? Specifically how well is it insulated and how big is it - how much air will your GO tank have to heat?
Any chance of partitioning off an area for a fish house? If you can keep the heat in then 2000g may not cost that much more to run than a thousand.
Regards
Dave
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Gazza
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Hi Jon,
I am with Dave on this one as you can insulate a lot better now so you could build the system and insulate the inside and bottom with Kingspan and then glass over the top of it job done and will work a treat
My tank runs at around 24ish and this is all done with a aquarium heater which is 200w
because its insulated
I personally would like a growing on system of around 1500gls as i have seen what i can do with 500gls but as you say space and running costs must be taken into account.
For me it would be 1500gls Bakki Shower and a pod or Nexus to give me a good system that was bullet proof
I am with Dave on this one as you can insulate a lot better now so you could build the system and insulate the inside and bottom with Kingspan and then glass over the top of it job done and will work a treat
My tank runs at around 24ish and this is all done with a aquarium heater which is 200w
because its insulated I personally would like a growing on system of around 1500gls as i have seen what i can do with 500gls but as you say space and running costs must be taken into account.
For me it would be 1500gls Bakki Shower and a pod or Nexus to give me a good system that was bullet proof
Hi Gazza and DaveJ
Insulation for heating will be a problem. The walls are block built, the floor concrete and it has a fully gabled, non-insulated roof. The floor is 52'x20' with the apex of the roof at 18-20', so there is a serious amount of air circulating.
I think I will probably (for the time being at least) stick at 1,000 gals. Apart from running costs (remember I've got the existing pond 4K gals, 300 gal tank and new pond build in the spring) the domestic management is getting rather twitchy. She has reluctantly taken the new pond build on board; I haven't even mentioned this project to her - she thinks I'm going to spend the winter months decorating the inside of the house, building a new parking bay for the mother-in-law's broomstick, etc!
I could partition but I suspect it would cost an arm and a leg re. the height of the building. What is Kingspan? I thought I could insulate the outside of the blocks with expanded poly or roof insulation and secure it with timber claddng? Then insulate above the pond with something similar to that to used by others for winter insulation of their outside ponds; sort of giant oxygen tent style arrangement.
200W heater for 500 gals? I didn't think insulation would make that much difference. I've been running a temp 60 gal hospital tank in an insulated shed using a 300W heater that I felt was struggling with the load!
I would like to talk about the Nexus units but I'll save that for another day; for some reason (apart from cost) I'm a little wary of them. I agree re bakki shower or trickle tower.
Let me know what you think re. the insulation idea.
Regards
Jon W.
Insulation for heating will be a problem. The walls are block built, the floor concrete and it has a fully gabled, non-insulated roof. The floor is 52'x20' with the apex of the roof at 18-20', so there is a serious amount of air circulating.
I think I will probably (for the time being at least) stick at 1,000 gals. Apart from running costs (remember I've got the existing pond 4K gals, 300 gal tank and new pond build in the spring) the domestic management is getting rather twitchy. She has reluctantly taken the new pond build on board; I haven't even mentioned this project to her - she thinks I'm going to spend the winter months decorating the inside of the house, building a new parking bay for the mother-in-law's broomstick, etc!
I could partition but I suspect it would cost an arm and a leg re. the height of the building. What is Kingspan? I thought I could insulate the outside of the blocks with expanded poly or roof insulation and secure it with timber claddng? Then insulate above the pond with something similar to that to used by others for winter insulation of their outside ponds; sort of giant oxygen tent style arrangement.
200W heater for 500 gals? I didn't think insulation would make that much difference. I've been running a temp 60 gal hospital tank in an insulated shed using a 300W heater that I felt was struggling with the load!
I would like to talk about the Nexus units but I'll save that for another day; for some reason (apart from cost) I'm a little wary of them. I agree re bakki shower or trickle tower.
Let me know what you think re. the insulation idea.
Regards
Jon W.
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Gazza
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Hi Jon,
Kingspan is a type of hard foam insulation which comes in large sheets (8 x 4) and can be easily cut and then placed inside the pond walls and floor and then just glassed onto and give a great deal of insulation its that easy
If you do this and then have some poleycarg on the top i am sure you will hold the heat easy
I do sometimes use two 200w heater but that in the winter and i have had the tank up to 28cish when treating before now with just those heater they work a treat.My tank is also in an insulated shed which probably helps and i may just put the radiator in one day,especially as i have a spare one now
Kingspan is a type of hard foam insulation which comes in large sheets (8 x 4) and can be easily cut and then placed inside the pond walls and floor and then just glassed onto and give a great deal of insulation its that easy
If you do this and then have some poleycarg on the top i am sure you will hold the heat easy
I do sometimes use two 200w heater but that in the winter and i have had the tank up to 28cish when treating before now with just those heater they work a treat.My tank is also in an insulated shed which probably helps and i may just put the radiator in one day,especially as i have a spare one now
Hi Gazza
Thanks for the Kingspan info. I've just found their website - I recognise it now that I've seen it.
One thing I wondered. If you line the pond with Kingspan how do you sort out nice round corners. I seem to remember a pond construction thread that stated "fibreglass doesn't like sharp angles". Would it be possible to attach the Kingspan to the walls and base then create flush rendered corners to make a tidier job of the fibreglass and prevent deadspots?
Cheers
Jon W.
Thanks for the Kingspan info. I've just found their website - I recognise it now that I've seen it.
One thing I wondered. If you line the pond with Kingspan how do you sort out nice round corners. I seem to remember a pond construction thread that stated "fibreglass doesn't like sharp angles". Would it be possible to attach the Kingspan to the walls and base then create flush rendered corners to make a tidier job of the fibreglass and prevent deadspots?
Cheers
Jon W.
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vippymini
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rather than insulate the pond why not build an insulated room. a few bits of cls timber, some board and the insulation sheets and you have your own koi-room....
easy enough to put a roof on it including an extractor fan to remove the unwanted moisture...
a good 150watt halide floodlight above it should give you loads of light..
easy enough to put a roof on it including an extractor fan to remove the unwanted moisture...
a good 150watt halide floodlight above it should give you loads of light..
Hi vippymini
The only issue re. building a koi room is cost. I'm embarking on a new pond build in spring and I've already spent a lot make the current pond serviceable. Therefore I'm trying to keep costs to a minimum. It is something I might do in the future but I have a feeling that if I build a room now that houses the 1000 gal tank that it won't be big enough later on.
Thanks for alerting me to the ventilation issue. I must admit I hadn't considered it at all - I'm going to have to sort something out for that whichever way I go.
Regards
Jon W.
The only issue re. building a koi room is cost. I'm embarking on a new pond build in spring and I've already spent a lot make the current pond serviceable. Therefore I'm trying to keep costs to a minimum. It is something I might do in the future but I have a feeling that if I build a room now that houses the 1000 gal tank that it won't be big enough later on.
Thanks for alerting me to the ventilation issue. I must admit I hadn't considered it at all - I'm going to have to sort something out for that whichever way I go.
Regards
Jon W.
Hi Jon
If U are going for 1000gallons but have space for something bigger at a later stage then plan ahead...1000 is great but I wish I had gone a little bigger when I did mine. Can't you get the measurements wrong and finish with 1500 !!!
Studwork with insulated fill does a great job can be knocked up quickly and doesn't cost a great deal...
Can guarantee that during the winter months you will spend as much time with the GO fish as you will by the main pond in the summer.
Regards
Dave
If U are going for 1000gallons but have space for something bigger at a later stage then plan ahead...1000 is great but I wish I had gone a little bigger when I did mine. Can't you get the measurements wrong and finish with 1500 !!!
Studwork with insulated fill does a great job can be knocked up quickly and doesn't cost a great deal...
Can guarantee that during the winter months you will spend as much time with the GO fish as you will by the main pond in the summer.
Regards
Dave
Hi DaveJ and Fisherman
I am slowly being convinced about going bigger. This whole thing is becoming odd. I'm getting advice to build my pond smaller ((I was going to go for 10K gals; getting advice to go 5-6K gals) and to make my growing on pond bigger. At this rate I'm going to end up with identically sized indoor and outdoor facitlities.
The reason I'm not too keen on putting up a room yet (apart from cost) is that I think that if I create a space just for this tank that I later on I will need to make the whole thing bigger because of other projects.
The barn hasn't been used for cattle for over 20 years. The previous owners have extended the blockwork up to the apex and bricked in the original sliding doors. It has been used as a garage and storage area ever since.
Does anyone have any views on the optimum dimensios. I was thinking 10x5x3'6"-4' deep would be about right?
Regards
Jon W.
I am slowly being convinced about going bigger. This whole thing is becoming odd. I'm getting advice to build my pond smaller ((I was going to go for 10K gals; getting advice to go 5-6K gals) and to make my growing on pond bigger. At this rate I'm going to end up with identically sized indoor and outdoor facitlities.
The reason I'm not too keen on putting up a room yet (apart from cost) is that I think that if I create a space just for this tank that I later on I will need to make the whole thing bigger because of other projects.
The barn hasn't been used for cattle for over 20 years. The previous owners have extended the blockwork up to the apex and bricked in the original sliding doors. It has been used as a garage and storage area ever since.
Does anyone have any views on the optimum dimensios. I was thinking 10x5x3'6"-4' deep would be about right?
Regards
Jon W.
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Gazza
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Hi Jon,
OK with those measurements it will be around 1250gls so a nice size
With an indoor system which you will hopefully insulate it will cost less to run ans the pumps are smaller and less wattage will be needed and then all the other stuff like heating,water changes,medication,food,treatments its all on a lower scale so cheaper.Once you go outside it soon starts to cost a few £££ and then you have a big pond you need to turn over more water etc etc ££££££££££
I have a couple of friends with large ponds and you wouldn't want to see how much it costs just for blanket weed or treatments when needed
OK with those measurements it will be around 1250gls so a nice size
With an indoor system which you will hopefully insulate it will cost less to run ans the pumps are smaller and less wattage will be needed and then all the other stuff like heating,water changes,medication,food,treatments its all on a lower scale so cheaper.Once you go outside it soon starts to cost a few £££ and then you have a big pond you need to turn over more water etc etc ££££££££££
I have a couple of friends with large ponds and you wouldn't want to see how much it costs just for blanket weed or treatments when needed
Hi Gazza
I started measuring today. I might go a little bigger - it doesn't look quite so daunting a proposition as I thought.
Do you think I would be able to pour a 10' x 5' base using a mixer or would I need to order ready mixed; I was thinking about a 9" deep base.
Your not wrong about the cost of treatments. A case in point is Sabbactisun. I was going to do a course of treatment in the pond. A 1 ltr bottle would provide 1 treatment - recommended application is 10 consecutive treatments; at prices round here would have worked out at £300!
It'd be quicker and easier if I took up burning banknotes as a hobby.
Cheers
Jon W.
I started measuring today. I might go a little bigger - it doesn't look quite so daunting a proposition as I thought.
Do you think I would be able to pour a 10' x 5' base using a mixer or would I need to order ready mixed; I was thinking about a 9" deep base.
Your not wrong about the cost of treatments. A case in point is Sabbactisun. I was going to do a course of treatment in the pond. A 1 ltr bottle would provide 1 treatment - recommended application is 10 consecutive treatments; at prices round here would have worked out at £300!
It'd be quicker and easier if I took up burning banknotes as a hobby.
Cheers
Jon W.