That's all great info, thanks to you all!
I'd prefer to get away with just the 4 to start with simply because of the lack of available space... But I guess the beauty of this kind of set up is that you can just add to it as it becomes necessary.
I've already been in touch with the seller to check the dimensions and ask if he'll let me have just 4 of them.
My Tetra 8000 pump has just siezed, but the seller has offered me a Laguna 7000 (Good enough?) as a free replacement so this is what I plan to use to start off with. It will only have to raise to a head the height of the inlet into the vortex.
I've had a look at the DIY section and am really impressed with the innovation displayed by you all! It certainly looks like I can get on with it with a far better degree of confidence now!
Louie
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Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
Thanks!
That's a kind offer Andy and I really appreciate it, but with the shortage of space that I have (My shed next to the pond is 7' x 5'6") I'm going to struggle to get the smaller ones in! I'm already thinking of puting 6 in, but mounted 3 above 3.
The other half is already asking where the hell is it all going to fit in?!! Fortunately she's fond enough of the fish that I'll get my own way in the long run! I usually find that sending her off to Lakeside with an extra £100 or so in her purse smooths out all the arguments! LOL
Thanks once again... Who knows....A bigger shed, a bigger pond...Bigger barrels....
The other half is already asking where the hell is it all going to fit in?!! Fortunately she's fond enough of the fish that I'll get my own way in the long run! I usually find that sending her off to Lakeside with an extra £100 or so in her purse smooths out all the arguments! LOL
Thanks once again... Who knows....A bigger shed, a bigger pond...Bigger barrels....
Piggy back filters?
Just to follow up on my last post..... Is it feasible/practical to mount 3 x 18 gallon barrels on top of each other to form a 6 barrel filter system?
I was thinking of building a frame to put the barrels in and then pumping up into the first barrel on the top layer which would act as my vortex. Two fluid barrels and then gravity feed into two static barrels and finally into a jap matting barrel and return to the pond.
Does that sound right? Perhaps the static media should come before the rest? Do all the different stages need aeration, and what kind of volume of flow should I be aiming for, bearing in mind that it's just an 8000 litre pond. (At the moment!!) I also guess that I'll need the facility to be able to isolate and drain each individual barrel for the purposes of cleaning.
Any suggestions as to the best way to set up the 6 stages would be most welcome. And do I use K1 here, K3 there, Alfagrog in that one and jap matting in the other......You know what I mean!!
Thanks, In anticipation!
Louie
I was thinking of building a frame to put the barrels in and then pumping up into the first barrel on the top layer which would act as my vortex. Two fluid barrels and then gravity feed into two static barrels and finally into a jap matting barrel and return to the pond.
Does that sound right? Perhaps the static media should come before the rest? Do all the different stages need aeration, and what kind of volume of flow should I be aiming for, bearing in mind that it's just an 8000 litre pond. (At the moment!!) I also guess that I'll need the facility to be able to isolate and drain each individual barrel for the purposes of cleaning.
Any suggestions as to the best way to set up the 6 stages would be most welcome. And do I use K1 here, K3 there, Alfagrog in that one and jap matting in the other......You know what I mean!!
Thanks, In anticipation!
Louie
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deggsymann
- Sandbar shark
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:24 pm
- Location: derbyshire
Hi Louie
If i have read it right, i would be slightly wary of the fact that water would gravity drain out of the upper barrels faster than it was pumped from the lower ones, resulting in flooding.
Emmaandaj - It's not stealing....if there is even the remotest chance you may bring them back during your lifetime its 'borrowing'
If i have read it right, i would be slightly wary of the fact that water would gravity drain out of the upper barrels faster than it was pumped from the lower ones, resulting in flooding.
Emmaandaj - It's not stealing....if there is even the remotest chance you may bring them back during your lifetime its 'borrowing'
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GERRY5
- Great White Shark
- Posts: 903
- Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:54 pm
- Location: feurteventura canary islands spain
louie ....on your filter system , i think its possible to stack the system using six barrels , but you would have to fit down pipes into the top barrels with slots in to maintain a level in the barrels and again in the base barrells otherwise you might end up with a glorified showerr , also you have to consider how your going to run your wastes from the static k1 when you fluidise them to clean them,so if ive read this right 2rows of three barrells top row static k1 in bay one , i would fit an internal bin into barrell one with holes in the base of the bin with an air ring for cleaning then a pipe leading to the base of barrell two a pipe from the top of two to the base of three and so on, the pipes in the barrells i.e. the outlets drilled or use an angle grinder to cut slots\holes to let out the water but maintain the k1 as you transfer from barrell to barrell so to conclude pump up to bay one at the top the water passes down the outside of the internal barrell and up through the holes in the internal barrel up through static k1 into a drilled outlet pipe through a tank connector to the lower part of barrel 2 up through fluidised k1 to the next outlet pipe as barrell 1 then the same for all six barrells,, barrells 2,3,4, fluidised k1 barrell 5 jap mat 6, static k1 for a final polish back to pond via gravity outflow you would need to watch your levels as each bay in turn would discharge slightly lower than the next , a lot of plumbing work but i think it could be done..
Thanks again!
Thanks for all that info Gerry....You're right...that is a LOT of plumbing to have to do on my first attempt. I'll get it all down on paper and see if it looks "do-able." If not then I'll maybe start off with a three bay filter. It still has to be an improvement on what I already have.
Louie
Louie
Louie,
Some of my experiences may help your decision making process.
My pond;10,000L EPDM liner pond,pump fed filters and too many fish.
First filter is a three bay commercial one of around 50 gallons.I've converted it to static media in the first bay,Jap mat in the second,and currently debris netting in the third to get the algae out (another story).This leads to a 50 gallon domestic water tank with 70 litres of Bioflow9 (similar to K1) driven by an air pump so it's fluid.Then back to the pond.Driven currently by an Aquamax 5500 it's throughput is 3500 litres per hour because the UVC blew up and I haven't plumbed the new one in yet.Connecting pipe is 3 inch,feed pipe is 1.5 inch.Notice that the Aquamax doesn't pump it's full rating as the filter is raised above the pond water level.
The new UV is using a prefilter,submersible pump, and just recirculating into the pond (yeah I'll get to it).When hooked up and feeding the main filter the full throughput is around 5,500 LPH or just better than once every two hours.
This set up handles the bioconversion fine but still struggles a bit with the finer particles.The main thing being that each section of the three bay filter has a proper drain and can be totally cleaned out when flushing to waste (every day for the static,every three or so for the netting).This is the biggest requirement any of us have.Get rid of the crap.
The total volume of my filter is 100 gallons and it isn't anywhere near big enough to do the job and my pond is slightly bigger than yours.The three chamber filter used to be my main filtration and really struggled both in crud removal and bioconversion.With the addition of the Bioflow9 fluid bed filter the bioconversion is now sorted and I just battle the green stuff (until the new UV takes control of the situation).I will be extending my filter this year.You might like to take note of that.I don't think half a dozen small barrels is going to cut it however you wire them up.
I will recommend the Aquamax pumps.They go on and on.The new Aquamax Eco 12000 is my next target (or possibly a 16,000) to get the turnover up nearer 1 to 1.Just don't believe the pump ratings as they will be impossible to replicate in the real world.Always go up a couple of sizes to get the throughput you require if you are running above ground filters.
I also run a separate air pump driving aeration in the pond itself.
Hope that helps a bit.
[img]http://www.jagger.plus.com/pond/filters/Fluid%20bed..jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.jagger.plus.com/pond/filters/DIY%20FB.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.jagger.plus.com/pond/filters/filter2.jpg[/img][/img]
Some of my experiences may help your decision making process.
My pond;10,000L EPDM liner pond,pump fed filters and too many fish.
First filter is a three bay commercial one of around 50 gallons.I've converted it to static media in the first bay,Jap mat in the second,and currently debris netting in the third to get the algae out (another story).This leads to a 50 gallon domestic water tank with 70 litres of Bioflow9 (similar to K1) driven by an air pump so it's fluid.Then back to the pond.Driven currently by an Aquamax 5500 it's throughput is 3500 litres per hour because the UVC blew up and I haven't plumbed the new one in yet.Connecting pipe is 3 inch,feed pipe is 1.5 inch.Notice that the Aquamax doesn't pump it's full rating as the filter is raised above the pond water level.
The new UV is using a prefilter,submersible pump, and just recirculating into the pond (yeah I'll get to it).When hooked up and feeding the main filter the full throughput is around 5,500 LPH or just better than once every two hours.
This set up handles the bioconversion fine but still struggles a bit with the finer particles.The main thing being that each section of the three bay filter has a proper drain and can be totally cleaned out when flushing to waste (every day for the static,every three or so for the netting).This is the biggest requirement any of us have.Get rid of the crap.
The total volume of my filter is 100 gallons and it isn't anywhere near big enough to do the job and my pond is slightly bigger than yours.The three chamber filter used to be my main filtration and really struggled both in crud removal and bioconversion.With the addition of the Bioflow9 fluid bed filter the bioconversion is now sorted and I just battle the green stuff (until the new UV takes control of the situation).I will be extending my filter this year.You might like to take note of that.I don't think half a dozen small barrels is going to cut it however you wire them up.
I will recommend the Aquamax pumps.They go on and on.The new Aquamax Eco 12000 is my next target (or possibly a 16,000) to get the turnover up nearer 1 to 1.Just don't believe the pump ratings as they will be impossible to replicate in the real world.Always go up a couple of sizes to get the throughput you require if you are running above ground filters.
I also run a separate air pump driving aeration in the pond itself.
Hope that helps a bit.
[img]http://www.jagger.plus.com/pond/filters/Fluid%20bed..jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.jagger.plus.com/pond/filters/DIY%20FB.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.jagger.plus.com/pond/filters/filter2.jpg[/img][/img]
More Thanks
Thanks Jagger!
What's obvious is that I'm really setting my sights a little low! If you're set-up is struggling to cope with a 10 000 litre pond (albeit overstocked!) then there's obviously very little point in me putting in a filtration unit that's not as good as yours! (Bang goes the Cloverleaf CL1 then, even as a halfway house!)
I'm currently having problems with particles held in suspension too. The water looks good, the readings are OK, but there's a lot of crud just hanging around!!
I'm tempted to just say"Balls" and go and get hold of a Nexus system. But it's a little like using a sledge hammer to crack the old walnut. After all, I've only got 5 x 12" and 3 x 5" koi plus about 15 comets. Can I really justify splashing out around £700? I don't think so; not yet anyway!
There are a couple of good 3 bay filters plus vortex systems going on Ebay right now for less than £200, and I reckon they would fit the bill nicely. Trouble is they come in at over 100" long, and that just wont fit into the current shed.
I can do it if I mount the vortex above the 3 chamber bay and then run the vortex outlet into the first chamber....But that's surely going to cause problems!?
Louie
What's obvious is that I'm really setting my sights a little low! If you're set-up is struggling to cope with a 10 000 litre pond (albeit overstocked!) then there's obviously very little point in me putting in a filtration unit that's not as good as yours! (Bang goes the Cloverleaf CL1 then, even as a halfway house!)
I'm currently having problems with particles held in suspension too. The water looks good, the readings are OK, but there's a lot of crud just hanging around!!
I'm tempted to just say"Balls" and go and get hold of a Nexus system. But it's a little like using a sledge hammer to crack the old walnut. After all, I've only got 5 x 12" and 3 x 5" koi plus about 15 comets. Can I really justify splashing out around £700? I don't think so; not yet anyway!
There are a couple of good 3 bay filters plus vortex systems going on Ebay right now for less than £200, and I reckon they would fit the bill nicely. Trouble is they come in at over 100" long, and that just wont fit into the current shed.
I can do it if I mount the vortex above the 3 chamber bay and then run the vortex outlet into the first chamber....But that's surely going to cause problems!?
Louie
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vippymini
- architeuthis moderator
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:00 pm
- Location: hertfordshire
i'd say stick with it and go for four or six of the smaller barrels that are close to you. if you cant fit them into the shed then why not put them outside and then build a purpose built cover to fit over them. use a bit of decking as the top and put a table and a couple of chairs on it. hey-presto a garden feature to be proud of.
mounting barrels one above the other could cause you more problems than its worth.
six of the barrels plus the fixings should fit in an area 3ft by 6ft if you do it with two rows of three
mounting barrels one above the other could cause you more problems than its worth.
six of the barrels plus the fixings should fit in an area 3ft by 6ft if you do it with two rows of three
Most koi ponds have suspended particles in the water. If for no other reason than the fact that the koi are constantly chewing/sucking on the algae on the pond walls and bottom. Run your hand over the pond wall and watch how much debris gets stirred up as your hand goes past. The only way you will get rid of it all is to have a massive turnover through a very fine meshed particle filter and even then you will still have some. I wouldn't worry about it too much as it's only cosmetic.
B.Scott
B.Scott
Thanks Again!
Thanks for the last two replies. It's reassuring to know that the suspended particles are not too much to worry about, and I can see loads of patches where the fish have been munching on the algae on the liner...So spot on there! (Does that mean I'm under feeding them?)
With regard to the barrels, the guy won't sell me less than 15 so I'll just have to keep on the lookout for some. I'm a little worried about going away for a couple of weeks in August and not having a good filtration system in place. (Diving, Sharm El Sheikh!!) With this in mind, I'm considering spending out on a Nexus Eazy Pod. What do you think?
I KNOW it's not going to be any good when I build a bigger pond, but I could use it in conjuntion with whatever I get. I've got an 8000 litre pond and the Nexus is supposed to be good for 10000 litres if stocked with Koi.
Any comments? I only have 4 weeks to buy a system and get it up and running before I go. I have a neighbour who can feed the fish and surely anyone can drain a Nexus.....?
Louie
With regard to the barrels, the guy won't sell me less than 15 so I'll just have to keep on the lookout for some. I'm a little worried about going away for a couple of weeks in August and not having a good filtration system in place. (Diving, Sharm El Sheikh!!) With this in mind, I'm considering spending out on a Nexus Eazy Pod. What do you think?
I KNOW it's not going to be any good when I build a bigger pond, but I could use it in conjuntion with whatever I get. I've got an 8000 litre pond and the Nexus is supposed to be good for 10000 litres if stocked with Koi.
Any comments? I only have 4 weeks to buy a system and get it up and running before I go. I have a neighbour who can feed the fish and surely anyone can drain a Nexus.....?
Louie
Louie, The easy-pod is basicly a static K1 filter and isn't really a bio-filter as such. Sure it gives some bio-filtration but I think you need more that that. in any case whatever filtration you add now isn't going to be doing much for at least 6-8 weeks as it matures. If you feel the easy-pod is enough I would bang one together DIY as it isn't that hard.
Have fun over in sharm. I was down there in 1977 and slept with my girlfriend in a cave about a mile south of Naama bay...
Wow I just had a look on Google Earth and it's all hotels and dive-boat harbors! When I was there the only buildings were in the bay itself! The cave is at the southern end of the beach beneath the peninsula, where the rocks start and the beach ends. Can't believe you would go in the summer though. 50*C in the shade in nothing exceptional there in summer!
Have fun over in sharm. I was down there in 1977 and slept with my girlfriend in a cave about a mile south of Naama bay...
Wow I just had a look on Google Earth and it's all hotels and dive-boat harbors! When I was there the only buildings were in the bay itself! The cave is at the southern end of the beach beneath the peninsula, where the rocks start and the beach ends. Can't believe you would go in the summer though. 50*C in the shade in nothing exceptional there in summer!