Wound Treatment Help Needed.

[Louie]

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Hi all,

This is a large fish that has been having treatment for a bacterial infection. Has had 4 antibiotic injections (not sure what type it was) over a two month period but healing just isn't happening. The wound is gradually getting larger and is also increasing in depth. I have a showa that had a similar wound, but it responded well to treatment and is now completely healed.
As instructed, I have been treating only with malachite and a sealant, but I can see that it's getting me nowhere. I'm going to have to call it a day very soon unless I can get some progress. The same treatment worked with the showa.
Any help much appreciated, even if it's just advice telling me to stop treating and euthanise. The fish itself seems totally unaffected by the wound. It's very active and eating well. Was very slow to recover from sedation today though, and I thought it had died. Hence this post!
Sorry the picture isn't in perfect focus, but I think you can see how bad it is. It's about 3 inches by 2 in size. 24" fish.
Thanks in anticipation.
Louie

[Duncan]

Hi Louie

This wound has loads/lots of dead and decaying matter and scales on it that will stop it healing. I know I keep saying it, but you can’t cure what’s already dead it will just continue to re-infect

The wound has to be pristine before any topical is applied. While we are on the subject of topical’s Malachite green is not a good choice it will cook delicate tissue, your far better with mercurochrome or betadine purpose topical’s rather than MG

This wound is recoverable but it needs all the dead and dying scales removing and all the dead tissue cutting away before any topical is applied

dunc

[Louie]

Thanks very much Duncan. I shall try and get hold of some mercurochrome tomorrow from my local koi specialist. Is there any particular brand or make of a betadine topical application that I should try and use failing the betadine? And any preference for a wound sealant? This is the most advanced wound I've ever had to treat, so best to get as much advice as possible! Also, this fish came from Bob Hart about 4 years ago, so I'd like to hang onto it if at all possible!
Many Thanks,
Louie

[Graham.]

That looks sore Louie, I have something similar on a Showa that has been treated with a number of AB's and Mercurochrome, I have seen some healing but it is a long process.

is the BETADINE DRY POWDER TOPICAL IODINE SPRAY the one your on about guys? or is there another?

Best of luck mate.

[Duncan]

is the BETADINE DRY POWDER TOPICAL IODINE SPRAY the one your on about guys? or is there another?

Best of luck mate.

betadine is a 10% povidone/iodine liquid mixture that can be applied with a cotton bud favoured by bernice brewster as her chosen topical of choice its used in human surgery to clean the site of impending open surgery( thats brown stuff they use to paint the site before they cut into you)it kills 99% of all bacteria on contact.

i used to sell it under the name *ulcer guard* but have not sold it for quite some time, but have/keep some on hand if anybody wants some

Louie the secret to healing this is getting shot of the decay, the best sealer is my "lock n seal plus" and im not just saying it because its mine, it really is the best sealer by a wide mile but failing that friars balsam is next best

dunc

[Louie]

Thanks again Duncan.
I shall use the betadine if I can get hold of any and I will make do with friars balsam for the next session. How do I get hold of your sealant please as I would definitely like some? On another note, and I expect the answer has already been addressed on this forum somewhere, how the hell do I go about getting hold of 2.5% solution injectable Baytril? My local vets just aren't interested in letting me have any, and I could really have done with it over the last couple of months. I suspect that another dose might help me here, but I am getting rather fed up with the amount I'm having to fork out for it. The £180 I've spent on the last four jabs would have perhaps been better invested in getting a replacement koi!!
Cheers again,
Louie

[Louie]

Thanks again Duncan.
I shall use the betadine if I can get hold of any and I will make do with friars balsam for the next session. How do I get hold of your sealant please as I would definitely like some? On another note, and I expect the answer has already been addressed on this forum somewhere, how the hell do I go about getting hold of 2.5% solution injectable Baytril? My local vets just aren't interested in letting me have any, and I could really have done with it over the last couple of months. I suspect that another dose might help me here, but I am getting rather fed up with the amount I'm having to fork out for it. The £180 I've spent on the last four jabs would have perhaps been better invested in getting a replacement koi!!
Cheers again,
Louie

[Duncan]

Thanks again Duncan.
I shall use the betadine if I can get hold of any and I will make do with friars balsam for the next session. How do I get hold of your sealant please as I would definitely like some? On another note, and I expect the answer has already been addressed on this forum somewhere, how the hell do I go about getting hold of 2.5% solution injectable Baytril? My local vets just aren't interested in letting me have any, and I could really have done with it over the last couple of months. I suspect that another dose might help me here, but I am getting rather fed up with the amount I'm having to fork out for it. The £180 I've spent on the last four jabs would have perhaps been better invested in getting a replacement koi!!
Cheers again,
Louie

click on the forum logo ( the fish) and go to my main site and look/click on the left for the chemical factory

[Louie]

Duncan,
I've ordered some mercurochrome from you to treat this with. I didn't order the sealer just yet as I went out earlier today and bought a bottle of 40% propolis. I doubt it's anything likea as good as yours, but it cost £20 for 60ml so I'll give it a shot. Will send a pic after I've cleaned up the wound tomorrow, and would appreciate your opinion as to whether I got all the dead matter cut away. Will do the first treatment with MG while I wait for the mercurochrome, just to make a start. Can't get hold of any Betadine (or similar) very quickly. Pharmacies don't stock it any more, and there's no way of telling how long the online pharmacies might take to get it shipped to me. Apparently all pre surgery cleaning is now being done with "Hibiscrub"
Thanks for the help; I'll get the knife out tomorrow and hopefully start to make some progress at last!
Louie

[Duncan]

with propolis less is more, use it very sparingly otherwise it will not adhere and will drop off, its not really a sealer louie

[fisherman]

Hi Louie
As Duncan has said click onto the logo you will be able to get all what you need within 2 days

[Louie]

Ok. Got all the gear out on the side of the pond just now and tried my best to clean this wound up. I'm pretty sure that some of the stuff that I've left behind may need to be cut out, but this was a start and I've not had to get this involved with treating a wound before. The idea was to treat with MG whilst I was waiting for Duncan's mercurochrome to turn up. I only ordered it yesterday. Can you believe it? I had only just finished applying a dusting of propolis to seal when the doorbell went, and it was the order from Duncan! Never expected it that quickly! I'm planning on redoing the treatment with the mercurochrome every third day, unless advised otherwise.
The pictures show the wound before, after, and with the MG. The last pic is of a new wound that I've just found on another fish. It's on an akward place as you can see. I've pulled out a few dead scales and treated the same as above, but will switch to the mercurochrome in 3 days. Any comments welcome, particularly with reference to any dead/decaying flesh that still needs to be removed.
Pics don't seem to have come out in the intended order, but I'm sure you can see which is which!
Thanks very much for the ultra fast postage, Duncan! Very impressed!!
Louie

[Duncan]

thats better, you can see in the second from last photo how much dead crap was in there preventing healing, now you have a fighting chance with it

dunc

[Louie]

Thanks Duncan.

I'll be a little more confident next time it comes out, and will probably feel better about cutting away any more dead flesh. I can already see a few strips coming loose as it swims. Will be ordering some more of your stuff too for treatment. Will every third day be a decent period for re-treating?
Cheers again,
Louie

[fisherman]

Hi Louie
This is one of my Sanke the I treated about 3 years ago first off I cleaned the wound with rocal you only have to clean once then I used Iodine making sure I got it under the scales then I put some diluted Malachite Green onto the wound then I used mercurochrome and finally sealed it
First photo of how bad it was


The same koi 8 month after