Some advice. Koi seem fine, its the goldfish this time

[madmole]

Hi, not been on for a while as all been running very well in my pond for a while now

Till this summer. Started a month or 2 back, saw a koi flash, scrapped and found Trich. Nuked it with PP, scraped and all seemed clear. Then about 3 weeks after that saw another flash, again it was trich and this time Skin flukes, So did PP twice at 5 days apart at then Kusuri Fluke M twice. All seemed good and scrapes were clear

Then a week ago started noticing a goldfish start to do loop the loops and hang head down. Belly distended (looked egg bound), tail out of water, then turned turtle. Thought strange and wondered if it could be the effects of PP and Fuke M. she seemed to get better after a day or 2. On tuesday found her dead, upside down. immeditely did a scrape and found costia 8-(. chucked in the correct doses of Formalin and Malachite, second dose due this sunday.

Now today noticed 2 more goldfish starting to swell and have trouble with bouyancy and looping the loop. Surely after the FMG the costia should have taken a big hit. Also On the dead one there was no symptom externally, gills were red and healthy and no signs of septacemia, ulcers etc. Vent looked like a male but I'm not good telling the difference. It looked like Distocia (or whatever egg bound is), the swelling was low and back around the vent

Can Costia cause goldfish to fill with gas?. The goldy was very firm to touch like inflated hard, only other thing that has changed is that I started some experimental food (from Kusuri) around the same time as this started and it does float very well and I notice the koi often spit it back out from depth and it rises very quickly. All of my goldfish are very fat anyway as they live on koi food

Parameters, Pond 2200 gallons 10,000 litres, 22.5 C, NH3 = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 25, PH = 7.5, ORP 310, O2 = SAT (tons of air, K1, protein skimmer, waterfall, 70 lpm bubbler ozone etc), turbidity is good currently, a little blanket weed just beginnimg due to sun (pond full in sun) and temps but some Eco Gold will soon knock that when I finish treatments

Any ideas or suggestions welcome?

Also one red goldfish has started to get black scales along its back, could this be sunburn? (they were all black to start so could it be changing back)

[madmole]

Update

The FMG and Flube treatments have wiped out the Costia and Flukes. Koi scrapes are all clear as are goldfish

But now I have 6 Goldfish that are very bloated, have dropsy and their bellies are going yellow (not red) and they loose attitude control, some float tail out of water, one lays on side on bottom. They seem to be stable and not getting better or worse

Could the FMG and Flube K have nuked their kidneys as well as the parasites? they were standard regular doses

Any suggestions on what to try next to help the Goldies. I have salt ready but am loath to use it unless nescessary

Parameters
PH=7.6, ORP=373, NH3=0, Trite=0, Trate=0, Temp=19.5C, O2>9 (Sat)

[Kanundra]

really sorry I've seen your posts, just don't know what to suggest, I've no experience of goldfish

Hope it can be sorted.... a pet is a pet, even if it is a goldfish....

Take care mate,

Dawn

[madmole]

Lost a Goldie this morning

Did a Autopsy. Was full of yellow fluid (urine?) and a lot of viceral fat. Kidneys were huge. So Kidney failure definately cause of death. Now its either due to obesity (They scoff the koi food!) or the MGF, PP and Flubenol treatments nuked them (did leave the usual gap and have used all 3 treatments at that dose before with no probs), or Its a bacterial infection (internal) thats not hit by MGF or PP

Now do I try some Proflavine Hemisulphate or Acriflavine? (I have a tub of Pro H, but was saving for when Koi needed it and its rarer than hens teeth nowadays)

Other than the remaining 5 bloaters all the other goldies (around 40) and koi (14, up to 70cm) look fine). Will do some more scrapes tomorrow just to make sure. I have also swapped to some lower protein, larger pellet cheap and nasty koi food (so the goldies cant eat it) and some small sinking pellets for the goldies and cut right down to slim em down a bit

PH=7.6, ORP=405, NH3=0, Trite=0, Trate=5, Temp=19.5C, O2>9 (Sat)

[Duncan]

hi

with the evidence you have presented and having salted up me thinks you have done as much as you can with regrads to the goldfish, what im saying is i dont thin k there is a lot more you can do under the circumstances the die is set and there is nothing in the koi keepers arsenal that can combat what ails these fish

sorry but honestly thats the bottom line

duncan

[madmole]

Thanks guys

The salt hasnt gone in yet, but yes I think I will just sit it out. Pretty certain the remaining 5 bloaters will not survive longterm.

Will just carry on keeping an eye on the others and weekly scrapes to make sure

[Kanundra]

Aww, sorry for your loss. Fingers crossed for the rest. Take care mate.

[fanie1962pretorius]

Hi potassium permanganate is toxic to goldfish
sorry for your loss
Fanie

[madmole]

PP isnt deadly toxic to Goldfish! its one of the recommended treatments for them and common in many Goldfish over the counter treatments

Hence its recomended use on many goldfish sites
http://www.goldfishconnection.com/artic ... parentId=5
http://www.ponddoc.com/WhatsUpDoc/FishH ... tbreak.htm
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Fungus.html

PP is actually toxic to everything! but you control the dose to make sure it kills the parasites before the fish. Its been used for a long time in ponds and the dose and protocol for effective safe use is pretty well know. Also this started before I PP'ed, PP was one of the treatments I used for the parasites I found on scrape of a sick fish. The healthy fish were negative on the scrape so I suspect it was an opertunistic infection

Anyway. In total I lost 15 Goldfish (mostly the Koi/Goldfish hybrids), no more are systematic, the Koi are still fine. All seems stable at present. My personal theory is that it was Gill flukes and that the Fluke M got rid of thos on the skin but not those in the gills. After 2 doeses of Fluke M and still finding the odd gill fluke I used another version of Flubenol and that when I seemed to turn the corner

I have aquired some Prazi from the US in rediness if there is a further outbreak as thats supposed to be very effective and none of my fish should ever have been exposed to it before so houpefully less resistance