Flubenol and Acetone or water?

[Manky Sanke]

Kevin,

I've never had the need to use flubenol or anything similar, so in this case I can only talk from a theoretical point of view.

If you sprinkle a powder treatment into water, either as a powder or pre-mixed with water, shaken up and distributed evenly, that will be fine if it dissolves but useless if it doesn't. The powder will slowly settle to the bottom and not get to where it's required. The reason for dissolving flubenol in acetone is because, although it won't dissolve in water, once it has dissolved in acetone and the acetone has spread throughout the water, each individual molecule of flubenol will be carried by the individual molecules of acetone evenly throughout the water volume. That way the flubenol gets everywhere and come into contact with the parasites.

I don't know the treatment you're referring to but if it contains something that is insoluble like flubenol, the manufacturer will need to provide a way of getting it evenly distributed or it would be useless. Dissolving in acetone is a very effective way to mix an insoluble treament into water but a manufacturer can't ask it's customers to do something like that because it could make the product look too complicated. Then they will put the complicated treatment back on the shelf and choose premixed FMG instead because they can understand how to add "one capful per thousand gallons".

What the manufacturers need is a transport mechanism that will carry their powder where it's needed without the customer having to do anything more than add the correct amount. One way would be to grind an insoluble powder so fine that any slight disturbance or current in the water will keep it in suspension. Another way might be to include in the "ingredients" a powder that will dissolve in water and which aslo likes to form molecular bonds with the treatment. The dissolved powder will then carry individual molecules of the treatment evenly throughout the water.

That's the theory, if anyone has practical experience, perhaps they'd like to share. Anybody know anything more?

[Brockp]

Manky and your detailed answers.

Please don't stop adding the detail and the science. On this forum we (most it seems) want to understand the "how" and the "why" not just follow a recipe and your explanations’ are always welcome. This well illustrated in this thread where the guy got his answer but wanted more understanding of why which you provided.

Thanks for all your potted science lessons.

Peter

[Gazza]

Hi Guys,

I think the manufacture of the produce Kevin is referring two mixed the product with clay or something similar and it should then dissolve with warm water....................unfortunatly i believe people had lots of problems and it didn't shift the critters but you could of course then carry out a PP treatment beforehand and then treat.........

[Brockp]

Hi guys....busy day on here today which is good.

I know a little about medicine formulations and the mixture with clay would have given you a suspension with the drug bound to the clay. The drug then goes where the clay goes, mainly to the bottom of the pond and then gets trapped in our filters, hence the failures.

When mixed with acetone we have atotally different situation with the drug having been solubalised by the use of an intermediate solvent i.e. acetone and will be uniformly distributed in the pond water and not trapped in filters hence the improved success rates.

Peter

[Gazza]

Hi Peter,

Yes you are bang on i did forget to put the part where it binds with the clay and sinks.......was typing and on the phone at the same time....men cant multi task very well

[sam51]

hi syd,please excuse my rudeness.i am very sorry mate.I'm having a bad life at the moment.but i would very much like your advice.
i have just set my new filter up.and as you know,it will be anoxic.the bio side is only at the moment, some old alpha grog.the baskets are ready to go in,but if i put the baskets in and take out the grog,i will have no bio filter.i think this time of year will be better.as the filter will be just ticking over.i do not want to go through new pond syndrome,any more.especially this time of year.
now there is a product on the market called koi bac.it comes from aquahydrotech,although,i think some body has taken over them.
but is still on sale with the same name.it eliminates ammonia almost instant,but at £50.00 a shot,it is not cheap.what i would like to know is that if it eliminates ammonia that quick,how can any nitrifying bugs start to colonize the anoxic baskets.
all the best mate sam,

[Manky Sanke]

Hi Sam,

No problem.

Although the anoxic system is designed to perform on its own. The simplest way to avoid new pond syndrome would be to add the baskets and then take out the existing media a bit at a time as the baskets mature. Is that possible?

If it is there will be no harm in putting the bakets in now but, in an unheated pond, the bugs that live in anoxic baskets won't start developing a full colony until spring time.

I wouldn't waste money on a bacteria treatment - even if I thought they worked which I doubt. Any bugs in the treatment that survive shipping and storage won't be the required species anyway. The ammonia binder that the treatment probably contains will bind any existing ammonia very quickly and that is what makes it look like the bugs in the bottle have been effective but, after it is used, it will serve no purpose and certainly won't keep the pond ammonia free until spring.

Hope that helps but we had better not hijack this thread. If you want any more help, start a new thread. I've got four deadlines during next week so I may be a little slow in answering but I'll get back to you asap.

[Gazza]

Hi Sam,

Bugs in a bottle as a very good friend of mine would say "Snake Oil" save your pennies mate