Prolapsed Vent?

[Duncan]

hi guys

before this gets off track

the female needs the male to drive the eggs our when she is ready in this respect gentley hand stripping will be a lot less agressive on her than a male fish driving her out of the water at times its quite a brutal affair so a carfeully prepared and carfully stripped female can be the better option

in fairness this leaves you one option with two variations on that theme if you dont want a mess in the pond

first and for most you will need two vats the first one is the vat to prime her and strip her once she is rippened the second is a clean up tank to get rid of the scent of pheromones (which if she still has this stink on her when you place her back in the pond will start the rest off spawning) it ain 't much but its enough

next you need to prime her. after being primed she will ripen all her eggs for gentle release within 24 hours for this you need CPE (carp pituitary extract) or somne water thats has just had a spawning taken place in it, thus containing the pheromones

lets say you choice CPE just to make it easy to explain

you inject day one around mid morning or earlier in the one tank

the next morning you catch the female and gently rub her down from the front within the area marked in red towards the vent if she is ready spawn will flow very easily with out effort( important dont apply to much pressure). Second option , put a male in with her usually a slightly smaller male withy some spawning rope or soft conifer branches you prime both fish.

after spawning place both fish in the other prepared vat andf allow them to rest for 24 hours
finally give them both a PP treatment of half to two thirds the normal dose i.e 1gm per 220 gallons instead of 1.5 gm per 220 gallons this will burn any trace of pheromone off them and when they go back they should not prompt a mass spawn

if you choose the spawned in water option the procedure would still be the same

i do have CPE in stock but in fairness its not cheap £300 a gram and come only from the USA i did Bob a spawn kit which consists of a huge 18gauge needle some stainless gauze and the glands

[wallo69]

Hi Gazza,

Not a bad idea mate, but I like to be self reliant, especially with the all round benefit of having a tank to quarantine and/or treat a koi in isolation.

Its got to be worth buying a tank, and as I have good reason to buy one now, just a good excuse to get one in!

THINKING AGAIN THOUGH (just reading Ducs post again) if I need two vats, your probably right!

Duncan,

Still leaves a coupe of questions - on the basis cost precludes the CPE idea, and a free male will do the same (hopefully);-

Once again, so in isolating koi in a vat, filtration is an obvious requirement? Or at a reasonable ph, say 7.0-7.3 would they be ok for 24hrs?

Having suffered a Mass Spawning last year, it would be great to get control of the event as you describe, so back to my last question - size of VAT as a minimum? Assuming average 60cm koi?

Thanks,

Mark

[Gazza]

Hi Mark,

The thing with spawning is they can make a mess so not necessarily need filtration but keep on top of the water changes and cleaning out any mess.

[wallo69]

Hi Gazza,

That makes sense as having put koi through the show experience it makes sense they can handle a 24 hour VAT experience.

Water changes, and constant attention the strategy, but I can see the main issue will be if on a work day, away from the office..... but lets see what happens eh?

I shall make contact with the EMKC equipment guys and see what can be arranged.

Mark

[Norseman]

Hi guys,

I have been looking at the pictures of this fish, and I have a stupid question. Is this fish actually deformed? In each of the pictures the spine looks bent to me, its tail is pointing up. I have only sen this before with another fish that had started getting internal organ problems due to this deformaty.

If i'm wrong, any updates Mark?

Simon

[Duncan]

hi Simon

i dont think its bent it just looks like that through the window plus its carrying a lot of roe

dunc

[wallo69]

Hi guys,

I have been looking at the pictures of this fish, and I have a stupid question. Is this fish actually deformed? In each of the pictures the spine looks bent to me, its tail is pointing up. I have only sen this before with another fish that had started getting internal organ problems due to this deformaty.

If i'm wrong, any updates Mark?

Simon

Hi Simon,

Not been on for a few days so just catching up a bit on the posts!

She is active and eating so for now I have been getting the 'sold koi' collected (one still to go) then aim to treat with CPE on the bank holiday week I have off so I can keep an eye on her and drag her out when she looks ready to 'drop' so to speak. Temps will be raised accordingly.

I need to chat to Dunc before then to make sure I am happy with my first IP injection of the CPE just to make sure I have everything covered.

As far as 'deformed' that was my first thought, but as its only 'appeared' recently, since getting my water sorted last year, it makes sense its loaded up with roe!

Last year was the first year I had koi spawn in the pond (pond built in 2003!), having got my water quality sorted, but I didnt expect the 'mass spawning event' that followed!!!

Hence planning to use CPE to ensure better control of the process, and avoid it happening in pond if I get my timing correct!

Mark

[wallo69]

Update on progress guys.

Administered CPE middle of last week, and hoping to encourage a natural spawning in pond by adding spawning ropes that were used last year with success

To date, not a hint of action!

The koi in question is relatively active, and feeding/swimming, but decided tonight to have her out to inspect as she was sat on the bottom of the pond again, a good 45mins, with some pond crap actually settling on her, so wanted to check her over.

The mass is really hard to the touch, sorry, resistant - I lifted her out of the water, held onto the front enlarged area under her full weight, and there is no give!

Temps sat at 21 degrees, with maturing naturally now in mind and no koi in the pond seeming interested despite at least two other girls quite large....

I am thinking its all back into the lap of the gods if no other suggestions made.....

Mark