Air Up Lifts

[emmaandaj]

Hi Jane,

I think if Emma saw the reading id get on one of those when my 3kw heater is on-she'd kill me! I dread to think how much we use as everthing is on standby etc! May have to look into getting one!

Cheers Andy

[vippymini]

3kw is nothing. when midnight comes and eco7 starts the washing machine, tumble drier, storage heaters and water heater kick in. 12kw is a norm. scary
i would recomend anyone to get one as its surprising how much you learn from just watching the numbers, we noticed our old freezer was on its way out and the new combined fridge/freezer has paid for itself in about 10 months

[Andy H]

I think that would be scary!!!

Have thought about them but what if the pond comes out on top and wife says fill it in......

Or I can say, It don`t use much really!

[estanque_koi]

Hi,
you can have access to another article with several pictures showing the filtration system of Fruto's pond, fully air driven.
I'm very sorry it is available only in spanish, but hopefully you will find that just the system sketch and the pictures are worthwhile to see.
Basically he's got 4 airlifts pumping water from the pond into de filter: 2 of them are 110 mm diameter pipe, placed at the two B.D. pipe intakes. The other two are placed at the two Skimmer intakes. Remember, no airstones in the airlifts.
The water goes to a mechanical stage with static K1, there is an interesting automatic system for cleaning and rising. Then to a second biological stage. Then to the pond. Maximum difference of water head is just around 1.5 cm
This is the link to the article:
http://www.elkoi.es/index.php?option=com_co ... &Itemid=47" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can also have a look at a couple of videos. In the next clip you can watch the filter doing his job, except that there was not chaotic movement going on in the biological filter stage at that precise moment.
Two airlift (110 mm pipe) pump the pond water through the two bottom drain pipes into a filter chamber. Remember there are other two airlifts, not seen in this clip.
Several big slipping gates allow the water entering the second mechanical stage through 110 mm holes, this stage is almost full of static K1. Notice a sort of blue float supporting a device. It is an automatic system. When the K1 is dirty it is more buoyant and rises. The device switches a double circuit, stopping the main air pump used for the airlifts and starting a second air pump used for cleaning the static K1, but you can see this in a secong clip.
The water exit the mechanical stage through 4 slipping gates. You will notice that these gates will shut as soon as the water flow is stopped, this is very convenient for automatic cleaning of static K1
This is the link to the clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JmpazQMEsk& ... annel_page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

---------------------
In a second clip you will see what happens after cleaning the static K1 and draining the dirt. The secondary air pump used to clean the static K1 automatically stops, and the main air pump start again blowing air to the 110 mm airlifts (you will see just two, but there are other two attached to a couple of skimmer intakes). More pond Water is pumped by the airlifts through the two bottom drain pipes into the filter. Notice at the rear part of the filter that the slipping gates are partially open alowing the water outflow passing through

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jjFe-wB7x4&feature=channel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope this might be of some help.

Diego

[okome]

Hallo Guys.
The Airlift systems you´re working with is just great. I´m building my first pond and I´m trying to make it right from the beginning, so I´ve a few questions: Diego is using 110mm pipes for the airlift, why not 2" or 63mm which is said to be the most effective? Where in the filter-line do I put the UV-light or do I not need that? Have you heard about a pump called "The Geyser Pump" ? It´s said to be a lot more effective than the regular air-lift pump. The big "but" with the Geyser pump: it has a US patent!!!!!
yours Elias :-
ps I´ll send you a picture from my project ds

[carlejo]

translation for above post

The vent dampers work to perfection and the first tests were successful, but the slack in the lines that make their operation as valves antiretorno not perfect.

Substituting a small piece of pallets methyl density greater than that of water (1.19 g / cc) during the filtration operation is very good. Amount without difficulty oppose little resistance.

In the cleaning mode acting as valves. Having lower levels in the compartment that is leaving the dirty water is an attempt to water inlet in the opposite direction. This makes closing the gate on a fairly tight.

The water is taken directly from the bottom of a drain pipe 110mm in depth which is placed the air will reach the water through the system Airlift. The 110mm pipe is split and joined to drain hose and check from time to time that no waste deposited at the bottom of the horizontal pipe that comes from the bottom drain. The water rises through the static and kaldnes dirty.

Through a gate made of a simple piece of methacrylate in a square water plastic that raises and spends the second chamber, with kaldnes dynamic. For the same happens to the pond.

The cleaning is done Airlift of stopping the leak and turn the pump (B) that pulls the dirty water tank for recycling water and air pump that agitates the kaldnes to come off waste particles attached. The following image illustrates the process:


The first automated system I have in successful operation is the second that occurred to me. At first I thought that it was putting 220 volts near the pond, but then I saw was in the water evacuation pump with cable and I realized that there was no problem, especially when the cables were to be 50 cm of water and well bound.

The material I used was a few pieces of PVC with different diameters (40mm and 25.32), a piece of cork or a float switch and magnet. The tubes are placed vertically, and placed in concentrated form. The finest canaladura by wearing a small pin which passes under the intermediate tube.

The switch has two positions, one with and one without job magnet magnet. In the first (with the magnet position) connects the cleaning system at the same time turning on a pump evacuation of dirty water pump and an aerator. In the second (without the magnet) is disconnected and this connects the air pump that feeds the airlifts.

When the magnet kaldnes up the sticks and can be connected for cleaning the pumps, the low level and intermediate buoy connected to the tube equally low. The two inner tubes that go down to your weight down while making the magnet is off. At that time desconcetan pumps and cleaning the filter is connected. The water comes out of the airlifts, fill the filter with clean water and increases the level of kaldnes approximately 3cm less than necessary to connect the magnet again. If we lower the height of a little switch mechanism will not have that dirty kaldnes both to conduct the cleaning process automatically.

[Andy H]

That lot would be great if converted to real english language!!!

Not even gonna try to understand it this late in the day...

It is interesting though but with these systems I think a lot of answers and proper tests need to be carried out to determine the ultimate pipe width compared to depth as this may vary.
4" may work wit or without airstones or various types and 2" may work better with a different set up.

[estanque_koi]

Hi, I wish I could writte up a more clear english version, but I'm rather busy.
Concerning airlift pipe size: what I can say is that Frutos has been doing a lot of empirical test, and he currently fully advises 110 mm pipe, however making clear that the airlift outlet must be placed just under water level, head must be kept at the minimum.
On the other hand, if we could keep constant the air flow pumped into the arlift, introducing the air iinto ther airlift at 1'5 m depth would produce a higher water flow than at 1 m. In practice, however, airflow pumped by any air pump decreases exponentially with water depth. Better use airlifts of 1,2 m at most,
and don't use airstones.

[Andy H]

The lack of airstones.... Is it because without them you get a bigger bubble that expands more towards the surface???

[okome]

Dear Sirs.
Lately I’ve been reading a lot about Airlifts of all kinds. I’m still as confused as I was in the beginning. They started with Airlift-pumps in mines a long time ago and what I can see: they pumped huge amount of water, in big pipes as tall as several hundred meters. They still do?
It’s a splendid idea in a gravity fed system, saving energy, no moving parts, cheap pumps compare with water-pumps and an easy DIY thing or?
In all the Koi-societies, at least the ones in Scandinavia, Spain and North America, we have been discussing and trying Airlift-pumps. Different kind of diffusers, air, length and width of pipes, head above water, friction and with so different kind of results. Somewhere it has to be blueprints and research to help us to calculate the best Airlift to “my” specific pond? Or is it the trial and error time-consuming-road? Just grab one recipe and go for it? Or, is the Airlift-technology new to the Koi-people, so we’ve to go through the trial and error to be able to fit it into our systems? Maybe it´s like Peter Waddington’s E.R.I.C, too simple (love the idea though, airlift+ERIC)?
Do we need something more complicated?
Okay, enough of that. Can somebody with the knowledge and skill summon the Airlift-pump-big-thread and give me a good clue how to construct The Best Ever Airlift-pump?
Yours Elias

[TicToc]

Elias - I agree with you and hope one of the budding specialists working on Air Up Lifts will POST a tried and tested step by step explanation, in the menatime well done to those who have attempted this successful experiment and pats on the back to those who have followed this thread.

Andy H says

The lack of airstones.... Is it because without them you get a bigger bubble that expands more towards the surface???

Andy - In absense of any other post - the removal of the air stone is to reduce or minimise any head pressure on the pump and air line and increase its performance. As merely one of several divers on this forum who had to learn a few physics laws post education - Boyles Law dictates that water pressure on air, say in a balloon at 10metres depth shrinks the balloon to half its size. If the air was let out, the air expands to bigger bubbles as it reaches the surface at 1 bar pressure (the air we breath). The principal applies at any depth but is more significant in the first 10 metres downwards.

My pond depth is 7ft so not only do I need a strong pump to counter water pressure, the air bubbles will increase in size by approximately 25% which makes the pump work harder.

What has been mentioned by one of the boffins, is pumping air into the water very close to the surface to make the air lift work as opposed to lower down, and letting natural gravity work the water level.

I think its time to go for a lie down and think more about this.

Regards,
TicToc

[vippymini]

i do like it when a thread runs for weeks without getting boring and lost in its direction.

now down to business:- the idea of not having airstones is fine if you only use one or two outlets per air pump. our system uses 18 uplifts on one air pump and hubby found it impossible to balance the air on each uplift pipe unless there were airstones on it. after reading this posts first few pages he went out and tried for one last time but still could not get them to balance without airstones.
he has been trying a few experiments though, by putting a piece of 4" clear pipe on top of a normal 1.5m length of pipe he has been testing the head height using different volumes of air.
using an 8mm diameter pipe. (no airstone)
with 25litres you get a max head of 2 inches constant
with 50 litres you get a max head of 5 inches constant
with 80 litres you get a max head of 6 inches constant

this may not help anyone in their quest for an uplift powered pond but it surprised us just how far you get the water to rise up the pipe.
all we need to do now is find an accurate way of measuring flow rates when the pipe is raised to different levels above the water level. obviously it'll be better low but you need some head to get the water flowing in the direction you want..

also i notice that our good buddy is using the "push" technique for his pond where ours is using the "pull" technique.

kepp the info coming lads..

[Andy H]

Tictoc...

say in a balloon at 10metres depth shrinks the balloon to half its size. If the air was let out, the air expands to bigger bubbles as it reaches the surface at 1 bar pressure (the air we breath). The principal applies at any depth but is more significant in the first 10 metres downwards.

It is interesting about the 1st 10m but ponds are not that deep, however, it is always fun inflating various things at depth and seeing if they explode or just get BIG before the surface!!! Giant inflatable golf club, condom etc...

I have yet to try a marigold inflated and cable tied!!! Bet it would be like a diver recall......

Interesting about the 25,50 & 80L It seems there must be a happy medium.
I now get what you mean about the airstones and equallising it all.
AND about the airstone causing head pressure. And causing an obstruction of the water flow...
Wonder what happens if you use the BIG single air pipe???
With one air pipe you then have the equation of pipe diameter. 50/50 air and water?

Lets say you pumped 50L of air down 100 miles, makes you think the power needed would reach a point where power increase to get the 50L deeper would reach a stop off point and be pointless. If you get what I am on about...

piece of 4" clear pipe on top of a normal 1.5m length of pipe

Not sure what you mean by that???

[Andy H]

Who is using the "push" method?

[vippymini]

Oi now your minds wandering !!!
the clear bit of pipe is above the water level so you can easily see the height of the water in the pipe with the different air pumps. didn't have 2meters of clear 4" pipe