bacci showers
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Telthepondman
- Sandbar shark
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:47 pm
bacci showers
Come on all you young guns, help an old fella out. My pond is 15 years old, some of you may have seen it, it's 9000 gallons plus 1000 in the filters. I have a 5 x5 foot vortex in front of 8 bays of jap mat. My water quality i think is pretty good as i still believe big is beautiful This is where my problem is. I can't get to grips with the technology of the shower i fitted 18 months ago, WHERE DOES ALL THE DAM'N CRAP GO. It's been running fine all this time, getting plenty of air in the pond, plenty of movement etc, so i suppose it was doing some good. Now comes the problem, came home last night, whole fish house flooded out, about 500 gallons or so, you guessed it, top shower absolutely blocked solid with crap and the whole thing had backed up, orrible! I am running Alfagrog in the bays as i was told this was not the best but O.K. I am now going to valve off the outlet and form a by-pass so i can flush to waste. Help an old pondbuilder out, i ca'nt get my head round this one, if i've got to flush it , clean it and maintain it whats the point, i might as well go back to big is beautiful. Tel
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Bob Hart
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2292
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:53 am
- Location: Maidstone, Kent, England
- Contact:
Hi Tel,
You've asked "where does the crap go" I guess in your case it goes nowhere except it's retained in your shower.
The Bakki shower principle is one of rapid turnover and using the correct media. I've seen many ponds using showers and if set up correctly they are very successful. I've seen showers used unsuccessfully where either the flow was too slow, or the wrong media was used, or a combination of both, and these do not work.
Each single width 4-tier shower should have a minimum of 3000 gallons/hour pumped over it.
Using BHM (Bacteria House Media) the crap gets eaten away. I dont know how, it just does. Other media's just collect the crap and become a real mess.
Alternatiovely if not using BHM, use a seive or method of removing all the crap first, then pump the water over the shower. It will still work, but not as well as having BHM.
As an example, Gazza has a small shower on his 500 gallon growing on pond. It's stacked full of Koi all growing really well. The shower is fed direct from the bottom drain and the shower contains BHM. There is no crap in the shower, it's disapeared like magic. So what has Gazza done right?
1. Used the correct media
2. Has a fast turnover
Hopefully this helps Tel, perhaps you could describe more how your's operates?
You've asked "where does the crap go" I guess in your case it goes nowhere except it's retained in your shower.
The Bakki shower principle is one of rapid turnover and using the correct media. I've seen many ponds using showers and if set up correctly they are very successful. I've seen showers used unsuccessfully where either the flow was too slow, or the wrong media was used, or a combination of both, and these do not work.
Each single width 4-tier shower should have a minimum of 3000 gallons/hour pumped over it.
Using BHM (Bacteria House Media) the crap gets eaten away. I dont know how, it just does. Other media's just collect the crap and become a real mess.
Alternatiovely if not using BHM, use a seive or method of removing all the crap first, then pump the water over the shower. It will still work, but not as well as having BHM.
As an example, Gazza has a small shower on his 500 gallon growing on pond. It's stacked full of Koi all growing really well. The shower is fed direct from the bottom drain and the shower contains BHM. There is no crap in the shower, it's disapeared like magic. So what has Gazza done right?
1. Used the correct media
2. Has a fast turnover
Hopefully this helps Tel, perhaps you could describe more how your's operates?
Bob,
Would I be right in guessing that the alfragog in this case must be packed too tightly in the top tier if it's clogging and blocking?
I thought the idea of a shower was to have large voids for gassing off purposes with some media getting in the way on the way down.Wouldn't thinning the media help on two counts here?
I'm interested because I've heard for ages of the benefits of showers for controlling nitrates and wouldn't mind trying it for myself this year.I'll no way be able to afford BHM so was looking at using alfragog myself and figure it is one of the next best media after the expensive stuff.
Given that the performance would be different to BHM (from reports ) with alfragog in a shower,and the fact that there's a big filter system running here as well,wouldn't the alfragog shower have at least the nitrate reduction benefits on Tel's system?
Good question Tel.
Would I be right in guessing that the alfragog in this case must be packed too tightly in the top tier if it's clogging and blocking?
I thought the idea of a shower was to have large voids for gassing off purposes with some media getting in the way on the way down.Wouldn't thinning the media help on two counts here?
I'm interested because I've heard for ages of the benefits of showers for controlling nitrates and wouldn't mind trying it for myself this year.I'll no way be able to afford BHM so was looking at using alfragog myself and figure it is one of the next best media after the expensive stuff.
Given that the performance would be different to BHM (from reports ) with alfragog in a shower,and the fact that there's a big filter system running here as well,wouldn't the alfragog shower have at least the nitrate reduction benefits on Tel's system?
Good question Tel.
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Bob Hart
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2292
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:53 am
- Location: Maidstone, Kent, England
- Contact:
Graham,
Yes you raise another good point, that the BHM is large and Alfagrog is a lot smaller. Therefore the Grog could well just be trapping the crap.
I know prior to fitting his shower Gazza used a 'bin' from B&Q, one of those with a flip top on it. Gazza had the whole bin full of BHM, although with it being large pieces there were still big voids. He did though have a sheet of Jap Matting on the bottom and this did catch some solids. But I guess the constant large turnover just blasted away anything large that was trapped.
I have used a 4 foot high TT full of BHM and the flow through this was too slow. I ended up with some Koi health problems and finally traced it to the TT.
So the tier'd effect with reasonably shallow levels of BHM with large voids and a high turnoved is the way to go.
If you use Grog, try and remove as much solids as possible first. Alternatively just remove the first tier of grog and dispose of it regularily. Or fit a pice of jap matting on the top to catch solids, and wash this off regularily?
Yes you raise another good point, that the BHM is large and Alfagrog is a lot smaller. Therefore the Grog could well just be trapping the crap.
I know prior to fitting his shower Gazza used a 'bin' from B&Q, one of those with a flip top on it. Gazza had the whole bin full of BHM, although with it being large pieces there were still big voids. He did though have a sheet of Jap Matting on the bottom and this did catch some solids. But I guess the constant large turnover just blasted away anything large that was trapped.
I have used a 4 foot high TT full of BHM and the flow through this was too slow. I ended up with some Koi health problems and finally traced it to the TT.
So the tier'd effect with reasonably shallow levels of BHM with large voids and a high turnoved is the way to go.
If you use Grog, try and remove as much solids as possible first. Alternatively just remove the first tier of grog and dispose of it regularily. Or fit a pice of jap matting on the top to catch solids, and wash this off regularily?
Hi Tel,
I made a few mods the other week which involved stripping the shower down to add another, the pic below is of the BHM out of the top tier which has been running for around 10 months now, i was suprised how clean it was and how nice and composty it smelt....
[img]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/Stre ... CT2885.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/Stre ... CT2883.jpg[/img]
I made a few mods the other week which involved stripping the shower down to add another, the pic below is of the BHM out of the top tier which has been running for around 10 months now, i was suprised how clean it was and how nice and composty it smelt....
[img]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/Stre ... CT2885.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/Stre ... CT2883.jpg[/img]
Hi Daniel,
I have added another 3 tier set and upped the pond turnover, the showers now have around 10,000 gph (pump sizes not actual) going over them, the pond turns around 13,000 gph over now.
I had to dismantle the original set to fit the new set in front, and make a new front wier plate.
[img]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/Stre ... CT2908.jpg[/img]
I have added another 3 tier set and upped the pond turnover, the showers now have around 10,000 gph (pump sizes not actual) going over them, the pond turns around 13,000 gph over now.
I had to dismantle the original set to fit the new set in front, and make a new front wier plate.
[img]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/Stre ... CT2908.jpg[/img]
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Telthepondman
- Sandbar shark
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:47 pm
O.K. i'm back home now, just done a pond service for an old client in town.Still keeping my hand in for an old'n. Anyway my tower is run from a 4 inch mid feed through an Aquamax 15000 so am getting plenty of flow, looks like i will have to bite the bullett and get the right stuff, are you all convinced that these really work, i'm still not sure, but will be guided by you young techo's.Where is the best and cheapest place to obtain it. I'm still in the trade "just" so may be able to do a deal with someone. Tel.
Hi Bob, the pond is 5800g,
A previous mod which was done involved pulling direct from 2 of the uplift pipes over the shower, this was done to aid the flow along the bottom of the pond and improve the pond turnover.
The system as is now pulls direct from 2 uplifts, the other 4 still go to waste on the timer, over one shower via a sequence 10,000 along with an aquamax 10,000 from one of the skimmers. The other shower is fed from the other skimmer via an aquamax 10,000 along with one of the nexus's, fed via an optimax 20,000. The other nexus now returns the 4 deep water feeds via an aquamax 12,000. I found the push along the bottom a little too much which was lifting the fines into the water column hence the mods.
I am much happier with the system now, it worked ok before and i was told i was being too fussy about the fines....
but i do like to tinker... 
Tel,
I had my doubt too, but i am 100% convinced about BHM, its the business, theres only one importer of the stuff and thats Mike of Yume-koi, but theres none in the country for another couple of weeks or so.
Daniel,
Thanks, the nexus's still get flushed every day, all thats in them though is the fines and the bits that the koi pull from the sides of the pond, no waste at all. Im not sure about working any better, but they do have that nice fresh smell to them. The uplifted waste is pretty disgusting when you watch it, so im happy not to have it in the filters.
A previous mod which was done involved pulling direct from 2 of the uplift pipes over the shower, this was done to aid the flow along the bottom of the pond and improve the pond turnover.
The system as is now pulls direct from 2 uplifts, the other 4 still go to waste on the timer, over one shower via a sequence 10,000 along with an aquamax 10,000 from one of the skimmers. The other shower is fed from the other skimmer via an aquamax 10,000 along with one of the nexus's, fed via an optimax 20,000. The other nexus now returns the 4 deep water feeds via an aquamax 12,000. I found the push along the bottom a little too much which was lifting the fines into the water column hence the mods.
I am much happier with the system now, it worked ok before and i was told i was being too fussy about the fines....
but i do like to tinker... Tel,
I had my doubt too, but i am 100% convinced about BHM, its the business, theres only one importer of the stuff and thats Mike of Yume-koi, but theres none in the country for another couple of weeks or so.
Daniel,
Thanks, the nexus's still get flushed every day, all thats in them though is the fines and the bits that the koi pull from the sides of the pond, no waste at all. Im not sure about working any better, but they do have that nice fresh smell to them. The uplifted waste is pretty disgusting when you watch it, so im happy not to have it in the filters.
Hi,
Read on Yume Koi and Tewa's Koi I think all the ponds that have showers and all the benefits, which seem amazing.
People do say that they really do cool the water, and thats what puts people off installing them, as well as the high flow rates required. DO you find they really chill the water?
Thanks,
Daniel
Read on Yume Koi and Tewa's Koi I think all the ponds that have showers and all the benefits, which seem amazing.
People do say that they really do cool the water, and thats what puts people off installing them, as well as the high flow rates required. DO you find they really chill the water?
Thanks,
Daniel
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Gazza
- architeuthis moderator
- Posts: 5306
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:24 pm
- Location: Essex,UK
- Contact:
Hi Guys,
I have been asked many many times does BHM work and how does it work
All i can answer is on the experience that i have had and that is yes it does work and very well and i have no scientific idea how it works as i am not a scientist
My small QT tank runs very well and at the moment there are fish from 10-12cm up to 52cm but remembering there are 7 or so which are all around 40cm.This is all filtered by BHM and BHM only the only difference is if i was feeding heavily (this does not mean four times a day as they get feed about 10 times normally) i would sometimes place a foam at the top to catch waste and clean it if needed just to keep it clearer (this was for my benefit not the fish) but even without the foam the system id never very cloudy and the parameters are spot on.
This is pumped directly from the bottom drain by 2" pipe straight onto my new shower which Bob made but for well over a year all i had was a BST (Bin Shower Tower) filled with BHM and it worked great.I think sometimes we all get hung up on this filtration lark and what it looks like,its the media we need to look at and anything else is basically a container which i hope i proved with my BST
The system is run by an Aquamax 8000 pump and the water comes out the chute at 1128gph and i have had some chats with Mike (Yumekoi) and may even be upping it to 1500gph which will be three times the size of the tank
So as Bob has explained above get the turnover and media correct and the rest will follow.....we think
Below are a couple of pictures of the system and a few of the fish:
The BST in action.
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_2556.JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_4012.JPG[/img]
Some fish in the tank.
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_4020.JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_4568.JPG[/img]
The new Shower
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_4864.JPG[/img]
I have been asked many many times does BHM work and how does it work
All i can answer is on the experience that i have had and that is yes it does work and very well and i have no scientific idea how it works as i am not a scientist
My small QT tank runs very well and at the moment there are fish from 10-12cm up to 52cm but remembering there are 7 or so which are all around 40cm.This is all filtered by BHM and BHM only the only difference is if i was feeding heavily (this does not mean four times a day as they get feed about 10 times normally) i would sometimes place a foam at the top to catch waste and clean it if needed just to keep it clearer (this was for my benefit not the fish) but even without the foam the system id never very cloudy and the parameters are spot on.
This is pumped directly from the bottom drain by 2" pipe straight onto my new shower which Bob made but for well over a year all i had was a BST (Bin Shower Tower) filled with BHM and it worked great.I think sometimes we all get hung up on this filtration lark and what it looks like,its the media we need to look at and anything else is basically a container which i hope i proved with my BST
The system is run by an Aquamax 8000 pump and the water comes out the chute at 1128gph and i have had some chats with Mike (Yumekoi) and may even be upping it to 1500gph which will be three times the size of the tank
So as Bob has explained above get the turnover and media correct and the rest will follow.....we think
Below are a couple of pictures of the system and a few of the fish:
The BST in action.
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_2556.JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_4012.JPG[/img]
Some fish in the tank.
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_4020.JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_4568.JPG[/img]
The new Shower
[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... G_4864.JPG[/img]
I have an hour clock connected to my boiler, it has run for the same amount of hours as it always has regaurdless of the shower give or take a few, this year was milder though.
I think most bakki installations are indoors, mine is almost indoors but not fully. During the winter i shield the back and top of the shower with polycarb and heat to 60f throughout.
The high flow rates are easy to get around, if you add the wattage of all my pumps it comes in at around 550watts, total running cost of pond is a tad over 700watts with the air pumps, not counting the heating.
I have pointed an infrared thermometer at the top and bottom tiers with a heat loss of 0.08f difference, not exact by any means but i just wanted to know. The gas bill hasnt gone up anyway.....
I think most bakki installations are indoors, mine is almost indoors but not fully. During the winter i shield the back and top of the shower with polycarb and heat to 60f throughout.
The high flow rates are easy to get around, if you add the wattage of all my pumps it comes in at around 550watts, total running cost of pond is a tad over 700watts with the air pumps, not counting the heating.
I have pointed an infrared thermometer at the top and bottom tiers with a heat loss of 0.08f difference, not exact by any means but i just wanted to know. The gas bill hasnt gone up anyway.....