This Section Is For Advanced Hobbyists Discussing new original cutting edge Experimental and Trial Treatments and Surgical Techniques, here we take koi health and pond keeping to the next level
Hi guys
I have the normal spring problems again!
Fluke trich i did see costia too
What temp can i use it as they are not happy i dont have a heated pond so relying on the warm weather.
they are feeding but flashing and now have a velvety coating on some and a few raised scales. the white is looking pink on a couple of my utsuris.
i have got a 40% formalin is it too strong?
and the normal 2% malachite, plus Duncans prazi,
Temp in the pond is at 10 C
5.400 gall pond including filter which is a nexus a nexus.
Any help appreciated
well i have gone through the treatment protocol
scraped for any evi dence on 4 fish not a sausage BUT most are on the bottom my big sanky looks like he has got swim bladder problems as laboured swimming and some look sore but some are happy as larry weird.
checked my ammonia and nitrite no ammonia but nitrite is high so added salt.0,3%.
its the laying on the bottom that upsets me they did this alot last year. have to wait and see if things improve as its only been a week since last treatment but i worry that they will get worse with the nitrite which will take time to go.
any advice would be great guys
Whenever there is a health or unusual behaviour problem the correct procedure is to get the water parameters correct first. It may be that suboptimal parameters are the cause of the problem and the fish may recover as soon as these are corrected or, even if bad water parameters aren't the whole of the problem and the fish need a medical treatment, then koi won't recover in bad quality water.
You say that the nitrite is high, how high, what is the value? The minimum parameters to check are pH, ammonia and nitrite. KH, nitrate and temperature give valuable extra information. Can you give these values.
The initial action with high ammonia or high nitrite levels is to stop feeding so that is what I'd suggest you do until the nitrite and any other parameters are corrected and Garfield's suggestion of water changes will help reduce a high nitrite level
I have found the pure pond bomb from evolution aqua are very effective at reducing ammonia and nitrite spikes. Simply pop one into your Nexus bio chamber and wait a couple of days. I have used these at temperatures down to 14 degrees
Hi Guys thanks for your replys i have done two large water changes so far and will do another tomorrow.
My ph is 8 as i am in a hard water area. ammonia is not detectable on my test kit but the nitrite was at 3. i have not fed them for a while the temp today was at 14c.i have put a large air stone in also.i have not checked nitrate but i know there is a fair amount in my tap water as i keep tropical shrimp and have to use ro water mix. i know the tds is high from my tap water also.
Sid would it help if i seeded the filter with some k1 from my quarantine tank or would it make little difference in the short term ?
Your pH is ok. This is the most important parameter because a seriously wrong pH can kill koi within hours which is much faster than any other suboptimal parameter.
The reason for checking the levels of ammonia and nitrite is twofold. Firstly, these have the next most serious affect on koi and, secondly, the relative values (especially if the nitrate value is known) indicate the health of the biofilter.
Your near zero ammonia is good but the nitrite level of 3 mg/L is dangerously high. The value should be near zero and the maximum tolerable value is 0.2 mg/L (Action below).
What near zero ammonia and high nitrate tell us about your biofilter is that the ammonia bug (nitrosomonas) colony is ok but the nitrite bug (nitrobacter) is absent. (Action below).
Knowing that the temperature is 14°C would have been useful if the ammonia value had been high but a temperature of 14°C also indicates that the biofilter should be functioning much better than it is.
Immediate action to be taken is to get the nitrite value down to well below 1.0 mg/L as quickly as possible (with the ultimate aim of getting it to near zero) because the immediate effect of high nitrite is that it seriously affects the respiration efficiency by preventing haemoglobin from carrying oxygen around the bloodstream. Bigger koi need far more oxygen than smaller koi which might explain why your big sanke doesn't have the energy to do much more than lay on the bottom. The longer term effect of nitrite is increasing nerve damage and internal organ damage. The additional overall effect of all these is stress which inhibits the immune system.
As with an ammonia problem or any other pollution, water changes will be the fastest way to reduce a high nitrite level so this should be your immediate course of action. The greatest aeration you can manage will help with respiration inefficiency. I'm not a lover of salt in the pond but, in cases of nitrite poisoning (methaemoglobinemia aka brown blood disease), it helps reduce the amount of further nitrite getting into the koi bloodstream so keep topping up the salt as it gets diluted by water changes.
Water changes will get your nitrite level back to a less dangerous value of well under 1 mg/L but don't stop there. This is the most important action but it's only first aid to reduce immediate harm. Getting the biofilter working again is the proper solution. It should recover naturally but reseeding it will help to speed up the process.
If methaemoglobinemia doesn't prove fatal in the short term it won't be permanent because, when the nitrite level is reduced, the red blood cells containing damaged haemoglobin will be replaced as new red blood cells are produced. Of course this doesn't mean that there isn't another health issue that will need subsequent treatment so getting the water acceptable should be done asap so as not delay diagnosis and treatment any more than necessary.
Hi sid thanks for the info
I have done anothe large water change today and seeded with some k1 from my quarantine filter.
they seem a little more active today but the big ones are still occasionally laying on the bottom,
Hi Amanda,
I would suggest you connect up a best quality air pump delivering 60 liters of air through large bore tubing to 3 x 200 mm flat air stones strategically placed in the pond.This is to get BIG volumes of stale water up to the surface to interface with the atmosphere and get some oxygen content back into your water, which will assist the fish and all the bugs living on the surface of the pond walls as well as in the filter media.
This will hopefully revitalise that big Sanke and the rest of the fish family.
Have a look see at the condition of the water pump (restrictions in basket or the impeller vanes) and the turnover rate through the filters and the pond.
There maybe some channeling taking place within the filter media. Possibly pull the all media out and give it a fluffing up. Or check for surface muck smothering the bug family.
Presumably your system has worked satisfactorily up to now. This has not been an ongoing issue has it?
Pics are always a help.
Cheers for now,
Garfield
Hi Garfield
I have a 130 liter air pump going now and the air going through the k1 in the nexus seems pretty good. i watched them today and a lot more seem to be active.
i did a big water change yesterday and seeded the ki with some of the k1 from q tank iwill add another air stone to make it three as you have suggested
Hi Amanda,
That's a a big daddy air pump!
I believe you can never have enough air turning over the water.
Pumped water is delivering food to the filters and that's about all.
If it's feeding a tower,different story.
200 mm dia. air stones are designed to distribute 20 liters of air per minute.
Cut right back on the food, monitor the nitrites and do the water changes.
until the filter kicks in.
Do you treat for chlorine when you do the water changes?
Cheers,
Garfield.
Hi Garfield
yes i use duncans de chlor.
Also have a carbon filter pod in use just in case.
I had a look at them this morning about 80% of them are activly swimming around but i still have my big showa with his swim bladder problem , he swims around but its laboured and he has to sit back on the bottom again after a few turns around the pond.checked the nitrite yesterday its gone down to 1 from 3 which is an improvement so i shall keep on with the water changes. air is going in and the pond looks like a boiling pot
Hi Amanda
Good show.
Sanke or Showa or both?
Do the Utsuris look less stressed out
If you are not too squeamish, you could do a repair on your fish with a swim bladder problem?
It could end up with a tummy rubbed sore or ulcer from the bottom of the pond.
Cheers
Garfield
