Very worried

[spags]

Hi everyone, my koi don't seem to be doing too good and i don't know what the problem is. Its been going on for a week now and that is the koi are doing a lot of flashing one day then not so much the next. My latest water test using Hanna equipment and reagents are Ammonia= 0.07 Nitrite= 0.15 Nitrate= 8.8 Oxygen= 7.7 PH= 8.3 this is about the levels that i constantly get.
Ive also done 8 scrapes over the last two days and come up blank.
One of my koi yesterday when i got home had a terrible looking tail, looks like blood in the tail, don't know how to upload pictures on here or i could show you.
My shiro and Tancho are looking a little veiny so i guess they are stressed by something.
If give food they will all eat and they are all swimming around with occasional moping around.

Past history was good up until a month ago when i scraped and found Flukes, i did two treatments with fluke m but still had flukes so i bought some fluke solve and did one treatment with that and that seemed to do the trick as i have not seen flukes since. been ok for 3 weeks and then this.
I keep thinking i should put in MG&F but i also keep thinking i don't know whats wrong so how can i put something in.
I really don't know what to do next but i know something needs to be done.

Can anyone help me out with some suggestions?
Much appreciated.

[Duncan]

spags|! sorry I missed your name god I have internet names!

calm down a bit, there is nothing dire or immediate going on so don't get putting chemicals in willy nilly
your nitrite is a little high for starters I would start with a substantial partial water change using dechlorninator this will tell you if its water or something other
I don't see what your seeing on the tail other than the HI running through the tail
I suggest you pick some of the least likely prospect and do another scrape

where in the world are you?

dunc

[spags]

Thanks for replying Duncan my name is Peter and I'm from hertfordshire. I have held off from putting anything in the pond. While there is a couple of stripes of hi in its tail most of it is not and looks like blood. I've stopped feeding and done a water change as you suggested the koi in the picture actually looked a little better today tail wasn't quite as red. But my shiro is very veiny and doesn't look too happy. Didn't have time to do a scrape as only just got in from work and its dark so will Do them tomorrow.

[Duncan]

Peter
Pending further scrapes and scopes I would keep doing partial water changes and monitor NO2, you could add salt to protect the fish from the toxicity of the nitrite 1/4 oz per gallon would be enough and would not get in the way of any treatments you may have to do
you need to get that nitrite down it should not be tolerated, I'm not saying that's the problem but its not helping matters
please report back your findings on your microscopic examination
Duncan

[spags]

Hi Duncan my nitrite today is still too high but has dropped so it's going in the right direction currently it's 0.11.
I scraped two fish today and found chilodonella on one fish and Trichodina on the other. Both had very few numbers on them.
I have a 3500 gallon pond including filters what would you suggest I do now. I gather now that I've finally found something I should hold off the salt. Even so was I correct in thinking at the salt dose you suggested to me and my pond being 3500 gallons I would've been looking at putting in 24kg of salt,as that sounded alot to me. I've never used salt before so wouldn't know I just want to know if my calculations were correct.
If you suggest treating I will do a partial water change before adding any treatment. I've never used any treatments apart from fluke solve and fluke m so I'm very nervous about what, how much and how to apply treatments.
I really appreciate your help Duncan.

[ginboomerang]

Hello spags,

Where are you located ?

There maybe someone local who could give a hand / advice with the recommended treatments, I'm in Shropshire.

I wouldn't be panicking though looking at the picture you've posted and from what you've described.

[spags]

Hello spags,

Where are you located ?

There maybe someone local who could give a hand / advice with the recommended treatments, I'm in Shropshire.

I wouldn't be panicking though looking at the picture you've posted and from what you've described.

Hi mate, I live in Stevenage, hertfordshire. I feel a bit better now that I've seen something under the microscope as I always felt there was something there but didn't feel confident in my microscope abilities.

[Duncan]

peter

That sounds a lot of salt but its only 1/4 oz per gallon so its small but as you have not put it in I would hold off while you treat

your plan of action now would be Malachite green and formaldehyde tow treatments a week apart

you can get it from me at http://www.chemicalfactory.co.uk or get it from kusuri but the rest is weak rubbish and don't buy the premixed stuff that's junk also

that's great you stuck at it and have found a the root cause
dunc

[spags]

I have got both of those as I got some from you the back end of last year when stocking my treatment cupboard. Not sure how to apply and what quantities for 3500 gallons especially the malachite green as it came in powder/ crystal form, could you advise as I don't want to overdose or add it incorrectly.
Almost forgot again I did notice a couple of raised scales on a couple of koi is this due to the current problem or do you think that's another problem to be sorted out afterwards.

[Duncan]

right you need 190 ml of 2% malachite green and 233ml of formaldehyde
to get your 2% solution dissolve 10 gm into 500ml of plain or RO water and use 190 ml of this

dunc

[spags]

Hi Duncan
I have put the fmg at the stated dose, How long does the water stay green?
So after 5 days do a partial water change and repeat treatment. Can i use the malachite that i have already mixed up as i only used 190mls of the 500mls made up or do i need to remix some fresh again?
I took a picture of the koi with the dodgy looking tail that started this post before i put in the fmg and as you can see there has been much improvement.

[Duncan]

yes peter it does look better

it will be green for a while and probably tomorrow they will slow down a bit so put loads of O2 in
yes you can use what's left of the 500ml and what left of that will keep for a year or more stored in cold dark place

well done mate good job

dunc

[spags]

Yes they have started to slow down already with 4 or 5 of them just sitting on the bottom, is this normal?

[Duncan]

some take to it easy other don't like it at all

all I can say this is a text book treatment although I would go 7 clear days between treatments and ease off on the malachite next time to half dose

dunc

[spags]

ok lets get my calendar correct, i put first dose in yesterday when would i do a partial water change ( and would this be a large water change or not).
Are you saying do the second treatment 7 days after I've done my partial water change or 7 days after i first put the first dose in.

Thanks for your time and knowledge Duncan.