Praziquantel discoveries

[Duncan]

Please read this and digest it carefully!!!
Ok here’s the deal with Praziquantel or more specifically 100% pure prazi.

Praziquantel originated in the United States where Tom Holder some years ago marketed Prazipond for Koi which was and is 100% pure prazi. it was originally and still is an equine wormer.
Then several years later came fluksolve which is 50% pure prazi which as you can see is half the strength
Dose rates:
In the States 100% pure prazi is dosed at 10gm per 1000 US gallons or 10 gm per 800 UK gallons as a US gallons is 20% less than ours its quite a strong dose compared to our approach
Flukesolve is dosed at 10gm or 50% concentration for 550 gallons.

Doc Johnson of Koivet advocates 7gm of 100%prazi to 1000 US gallons which equates to 3.5 grams to 400 uk gallons, which if you downscale it to 50% prazi is the same as flukesolve at 10 gm per 550 UK gallons, so doc Johnsons view is more in line with the Uk’s flukesolve does rate.

So it’s a bit confusing but it’s not really if you look at it logically
Now in the USA as well as using a higher dose than us they routinely dose it with Proform C, Proform C is 20% formaldehyde and 1% malachite green premix, this they say screws the flukes and just about every other parasite on the planet at the same time, the reasoning for this is as follows:

Its universally accepted that Prazi is an absolute swine to dissolve end of! And guess what it dissolves readily into? Yes preform c ! Hence some bright sparks some years back discovered you could dissolve 100% prazi into a standard pond dose of Proform c and hit everything at the same time. So it’s been Accepted in the states for years now you can if you wish dissolve one into the and hit multi parasites at the same time. I have spoken to several pond chums over the pond and they all dissolve Prazi into a standard pond dose of Proform C.

So if we come back to the dissolving problem, even flukesolve does not dissolve readily although I believe it’s better than pure prazi. In America if you want to dissolve it WITHOUT Proform c, you put the dose into a plastic litre pop bottle fill it with plain water and shake the whey out of it for 3 minutes and at least 70% of the stuff will dissolve ( this is in the prazipond instruction) then you add this to a bucket of pond water and most of the rest dissolves you then add to the pond and over a day or two you get a total dissolve. But I got to thinking about the proform C /Prazi combination and started to think I wonder if????
Right my thinking was the malachite aspect of the combo was is insignificant in the dissolving process as it’s just a salt, so it had to be the formaldehyde so I set about seeing how little you could get away with and came up with this formula
5 grams of Prazi + 5 ml of formaldehyde plus 5 ml of water mix this with vigour for 2 to 3 minutes and you get a white free flowing paste, let it stand for a 5 minutes then top up with tap water stirring as you add water and you will find you have totally dissolved the powder 100% add this to a buck of pond water and mix then spread around the pond wolla!
The impact of this is it does not affect the prazi as formaldehyde is amongst other things a preservative and it will have no negative effect on your filter as it’s a very low amount.

Conclusions are this:

My 100% pure Prazi I’m happy to recommend a dose rate of 10 gram to 1000-1100 gallons or you can if you wish do down to 10 gm per 850 gallons. Its filter and plant safe and no water change is needed and it’s a one shot treatment
You can if you wish dissolve this as out lined by putting the dose in a pop bottle and shake the crap out of it then adding to a bucket of pond water and spreading around the pond, or you can if you wish dissolve it readily by using 5ml of formaldhyde to this add 5 ml/cc of plain water to 5 gram of Prazi and makes a free flowing paste then let it stand for a few minutes and stir as you top up with water then add to a bucket of pond water, so the formaldehyde approach is 5, 5 and 5, if it was 15 gm you were putting in it would be 15gm prazi + 15ml formalin + 15 ml of water, if it was 30 gm it would be 30 gm of prazi plus 30 ml of formalin + 30 ml of water, get the picture? its the most you need to 100% dissolve the prazi without impacting fish or pond i suspect as is the case with flubenol and acetone as you start dealing with higher weights you would get away with less liquid.

Now I have the stuff here and the price is going to be circa £1 per gram plus a bit of delivery, I will be doing it in 10gm packs to treat 1000 gallons and 25 gm to treat 2750 uk gallons slightly less so the price for 10 gm is £14 including first class delivery and the price for 25 gram is £24 including first class delivery
Your comments as usual are welcome

Im not going to put this information out there so please feel free to steer people here for this account

Duncan

[tonyb]

Hi Dunc thanks for that useful info, regarding the price it looks like it works out more expensive than fluke solve 100 g of FS treats 5500 g at £45, 50g of pure praziquantel treats 5000 g at £54, or have I got it wrong?

Tony

[DaveB]

Duncan Great Post. Can you clarifiy the following statment
Now in the USA as well as using a higher dose than us they routinely dose it with Proform C, Proform C is 20% formaldehyde and 1% malachite green premix, this they say screws the flukes and just about every other parasite on the planet at the same time
.Can you list what parasites this mixture would irradicate. Would this not be a major breakthrough in Koi keeping. Would save me hours searching for parasites. Would it not be great to just mix all three and wham!. Just for the record when we use formaldahyde can we use formalyn 30%. and would it be the same dosage ie 5, 5 and 5
Best Regards Dave

[Duncan]

hi Tony


Im not knocking trying to knock the competition but, briefly If their 50% prazi 100 gram pack treats 5500 uk gallons, then 50 gm of my 100% pure will treat 5500 gallons its simple maths, if anyone cant see this i dont know what i can do to make it clearer. So my 25 gm will treat 2750 gallons, i was just being conservative but if its value for money your really interested in , then yes 10 gram of mine will treat 1100 gallons and 25 gram will treat 2750 gallons its that simple.

If we go By Doc Johnson extensive research 7 gm of PURE Prazi will treat 800 gallons UK so 10 grams pure could treat 1150 gallons and 25 gram of pure could treat 2800 uk gallons its your choice, pure prazi is very flexible cuz its not been tampered. I cant speak for how far you can stretch out flukesolve because its a long way from pure prazi and we have no idea what it was stepped on with ( packed out with"filler")

although Prazi is very expensive, i have taken into account your comments and adjusted the price a little to make it more competitive but please bare in mind my price includes P&P at least £3.50 each even the 10 gram is £3.50 P&P. Price wise its very much swings and round abouts, my 10 gram pack is loads cheaper than fluke solve even without the P&P as it treats 1000-1100 gallons as opposed to 550 gallons, with the 25 gram pack, if flukesolve will treat 5500 gallons so will mine (its simple math) unless you get free delivery my treatment for 5500 gallons is cheaper also, on top of this, a lot of folks dont want to buy a pack that big (100 gm) that will treat 5500 gallons they prefer to buy enough for a smaller pond sizes these two pack sizes give that flexibility

i may do a 50 gm pack later but i wanted to trial this first see how it went, but trust me its pure prazi i dont lean on it to make it go further it comes to me and i simply dispense it

Duncan

[Duncan]

Duncan Great Post. Can you clarifiy the following statment
Now in the USA as well as using a higher dose than us they routinely dose it with Proform C, Proform C is 20% formaldehyde and 1% malachite green premix, this they say screws the flukes and just about every other parasite on the planet at the same time
.Can you list what parasites this mixture would irradicate. Would this not be a major breakthrough in Koi keeping. Would save me hours searching for parasites. Would it not be great to just mix all three and wham!. Just for the record when we use formaldahyde can we use formalyn 30%. and would it be the same dosage ie 5, 5 and 5
Best Regards Dave

hi Dave

I was going to remove this reference because i had a feeling it would be conscrewed in a way i thought may cause some confusion, which is why i said "please read this through carfully". i did not want people racing off and doseing their pond with both at our dose rates for MG&F, Yes its an accepted way to treat koi , you dissolve your Prazi dose into a standard pond dose of Proform C one koi dealer even treats with two doses of Proform c with the appropriate days apart, then on the thrid dose of proform c put's the prazi in with this third dose, BUT please be aware Proform C varies a lot from our standard dose of MG&F.

Proform C is 20% formalin/formaldehyde where as we use 30-35% formalin and Proform C also has 1% malachite green chloride where as we use 2% malachite green oxalate which is more toxic, so their standard dose they dissolve the prazi into is a lot less toxic than ours but that said the prazi deals with internal and external flukes and worms and trich and the proform will also deal with trich plus costia, chillo, epistylis it wont touch, lice and anchor worm... but i have something else coming for that

I will when i get a pond back up and running trial our version of MG&F with Prazi, and i think it will work because one does not interfere with the other, but for the moment this reference served as a back ground information for the formaldehyde prazi dissoloving application. From that aspect just about everyone in US dissolves prazi in MG&F, like i say the malachite green side of things is insignificant, its the formalin/formaldehyde that does the dissolving and this i proved, also i was looking for a way to 100% dissolve the Prazi without putting your fish or filters or other species of fish and plants at risk, this i also did

Just for the record when we use formaldahyde can we use formalyn 30%. and would it be the same dosage ie 5, 5 and 5

yes formalin is formaldehyde with methanol added for the last few years its been ilegal in the country to sell Formaldehyde over a certain concentration without methanol so technically although hwat i buy and sell is listed as formaldehyde it is actually formlain they are one and the same and i doubt if any koi man has anything less than 30% formalin kicking around so the 5 + 5 + 5 will always work, was going to buy in some 15-20% but thoiugh what the hell i may sa well dilute what we have to hand hence the 5 of prazi 5 of formalin and 5 of water

if it was 15 gm you were putting in it would be 15gm prazi + 15ml formalin + 15 ml of water, if it was 30 gm it would be 30 gm of prazi plus 30 ml of formalin + 30 ml of water, get the picture? its the most you need to 100% dissolve the prazi without impacting fish or pond i suspect as is the case with flubenol and acetone as you start dealing with higher weights you would get away with less liquid.

but for now unless you have some spare feeder fish and an empty quarantine it might be worth trialing our standard dose of MG&F and a standard dose of Prazi ands see what develops but uintill i get a poind up and runnoing again and can conduct proper trials i suggest you leave the prazi + MG&F out

hope this clears things up

dunc

[DaveB]

Duncan. Thanks for clearing that up. Ufortuanely I do not have any feeder fish of quarentine so will have to wait for any future trials from your good self or if anyone else fancies a go. Best Regards Dave

[StuW]

Great info Duncan, is this treatment safe with other fish, I don't have your book handy to check and I know a lot of guys don't have it who may be reading this anyway. In my case I have a sturgeon in the pond, would I have to put it in theQ/T and if so for how long

[Duncan]

hi stu

yes its fine with Diamond sturgeon, Sterlet sturgeon, Orfe and Rudd

dunc

[kingfisher]

Hi Duncan,

It sounds a very interesting preparation ..one stop that kills virtually all parasites & does not affect filters, certainly very attractive to me.
What about shelf life, will it keep indefinately. ?
Has anyone used it in their pond in the UK yet... ?

kingfisher

[ginboomerang]

Following up on kingfishers question; has anyone tried this 'one stop' approach and is it available as a complete preparation Duncan ?

Thanks.

[Duncan]

hi welcome
im about to try it as soon as I get through the nitrite stage of maturing my experimental pond/tank

if they check out when its applied I need to know if it was the application that did it or the nitrite
dunc

[Duncan]

well I have begun
in a 400 gallon pond I have dissolved 5gm of 100% prazi a slight over dose into 23ml of 2% malachite green and 30 ml of 36% formaldehyde all of which is slightly over dosed and as well as that because im fighting nitrite the pond has 1/2oz per gallon salt as well

should be interesting me thinks???
dunc

[Duncan]

well day two and the fish are alive and well, they don't look to happy with me but then again they have nitrite,salt, prazi, malachite and formaldehyde to put up with so they aint going to be sending me any thank you letters

stay tuned

dunc

[Spalders]

Hi Duncan,

Have ordered some prazi from you today, having trouble in my pond with gill fluke (again)!

Do you reckon to use malachite green as well when using the formalin to dissolve the prazi?

Thanks

Dom

[Duncan]

Dom

its early days yet but stay tuned cuz they are still OK!
dunc