i was just wondering what you all place your faith in when treating fish topically?
so what do you prefer to use
topically?
antibiotic?
pond infection treatment wise?
its would be of real interest to see where we have got to and for me in particular to see where i need to be with my stuff
dunc
What are your successful treatments
Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
Re: What are your successful treatments
ok I'll start the ball rolling as we are going all shy 
topicals no sectrets here, " Mercurchrome" and "MFR-1 or gentian violet"
i have remained faithfull to these since i began in the hobby plus the japanese breeders love mercorochrome or so im told
the gentian is a development of mine and is second to none for fin and mouth rot
antibiotic: i stock most of them but am am exclusively draw to or using as my main stay "Kanamycin" i find this to cure most infections and the one i reach for automatically now, its new, but a great tool
pond wide treatments against bacterial infection and most parasites got to be the ultimate Chloramine T its more controllable, more flexible, more dependable and works on more koi ailments than vircon or virasure or anything else along those lines
so thats me how about you?
topicals no sectrets here, " Mercurchrome" and "MFR-1 or gentian violet"
i have remained faithfull to these since i began in the hobby plus the japanese breeders love mercorochrome or so im told
the gentian is a development of mine and is second to none for fin and mouth rot
antibiotic: i stock most of them but am am exclusively draw to or using as my main stay "Kanamycin" i find this to cure most infections and the one i reach for automatically now, its new, but a great tool
pond wide treatments against bacterial infection and most parasites got to be the ultimate Chloramine T its more controllable, more flexible, more dependable and works on more koi ailments than vircon or virasure or anything else along those lines
so thats me how about you?
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Manky Sanke
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Re: What are your successful treatments
Duncan,
Sorry I can't be a lot of help here by adding any of my experiences to this thread but when I took your health course, back in 2007, I took your book very seriously, I bought a box and filled it with some of the kit that you recommended in the opening chapter. This included some topical treatments, so that I could always be prepared. Apart from a couple of simple parasite problems since then, I've been fortunate and I've never had to topically treat a fish so the box has remained unopened and gathering dust. But if I did have to topically treat a fish, apart from checking that they were still viable, the ones you recommend above would be what I would use.
Sorry I can't be a lot of help here by adding any of my experiences to this thread but when I took your health course, back in 2007, I took your book very seriously, I bought a box and filled it with some of the kit that you recommended in the opening chapter. This included some topical treatments, so that I could always be prepared. Apart from a couple of simple parasite problems since then, I've been fortunate and I've never had to topically treat a fish so the box has remained unopened and gathering dust. But if I did have to topically treat a fish, apart from checking that they were still viable, the ones you recommend above would be what I would use.
Re: What are your successful treatments
Duncan
When I first started the hobby I used Mercurchrome then went onto the 3 treatments sold by lincolnshire fish health including roccal. I have now gone back to using Mercurchrome , orabase powder and lock & seal. I would be interested in MFR-1 or gentian violet and where this comes into play or is it used only for fin rot and or mouth rot. I am currently treating an Ulcer on my sanky and need something thats up to the job. I intend to use CT as it has help me no end the last couple of years when I have had more problems than I would like.
Also what is the dosage for "Kanamycin as I have not had much joy with Fortum as I think this is more bacteria specific rather than a broad spectrum. Best regards Dave
When I first started the hobby I used Mercurchrome then went onto the 3 treatments sold by lincolnshire fish health including roccal. I have now gone back to using Mercurchrome , orabase powder and lock & seal. I would be interested in MFR-1 or gentian violet and where this comes into play or is it used only for fin rot and or mouth rot. I am currently treating an Ulcer on my sanky and need something thats up to the job. I intend to use CT as it has help me no end the last couple of years when I have had more problems than I would like.
Also what is the dosage for "Kanamycin as I have not had much joy with Fortum as I think this is more bacteria specific rather than a broad spectrum. Best regards Dave
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Gazza
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Re: What are your successful treatments
Hi Dunc,
I think you know what i use as you supply them all
Over the years i think i must of tried most things but found some of them seemed to be a bit "weak" sealers didn't seem to seal very good and would come off too quickly for my liking. I found the same with a lot of pond treatments which didn't seem to do what they said on the tin
I use Mercurchrome for topical and if needed will seal with lock and seal and orabase powder. I also use MFR1 which also works a treat.
Pond treatments are the standard ones MG&F,PP,CT and Flubenol but i only buy the good grade stuff note any of the off the shelf "koi" ones.CT is what i would call my best friend and one i would reach for without hesitation.
Antibiotics are Fortum,Batril but this new one sounds good is there any more info on it ?
I think you know what i use as you supply them all
Over the years i think i must of tried most things but found some of them seemed to be a bit "weak" sealers didn't seem to seal very good and would come off too quickly for my liking. I found the same with a lot of pond treatments which didn't seem to do what they said on the tin
I use Mercurchrome for topical and if needed will seal with lock and seal and orabase powder. I also use MFR1 which also works a treat.
Pond treatments are the standard ones MG&F,PP,CT and Flubenol but i only buy the good grade stuff note any of the off the shelf "koi" ones.CT is what i would call my best friend and one i would reach for without hesitation.
Antibiotics are Fortum,Batril but this new one sounds good is there any more info on it ?
Re: What are your successful treatments
My first option for many years was Mercurchrome this was then lock and sealed.
I had a bad bacterial issue last year which more or less wiped out my stock apart from 4, I was tearing my hair out with what I could do to help these Koi, I tried anything and everything topically to aid in repair but nothing appeard to work.
I then tried Betadine and followed this with Koi Clear gel, ok I know many here may feel this is nothing but a snake oil but if you was where I was a year ago you would have tried Channel number 5 if you thought it was going to help.
Anyway the one koi I treated with this healed, the skin went white and to this day the scar is minimal and scales are rejuvinating.
I still have Mercurchrome in my cupboard as well as plenty of other items that HAVE worked over the years however I have simpky had my confidence knocked and i'll now reach for Betadine and Koi gel in future first.
For pond treatment it is now PP, I have used kilo's and kilo's of CT in very high levels during my bacterial outbreak and nothing changed, after a good dose of PP with constant orp checking over 4 hours things began to turn for the better, I now have this as my no.1
As far as Biotics are concerned I have used many, and once again no such luck during my major outbreak even with advice from many health experts. I would like to have something like fortum in powder format so I can mix up instead of the bottle stuff that needs to be kept in fridge 24/7 however with no source of Vet in my area that understands koi im knackered. lol
I had a bad bacterial issue last year which more or less wiped out my stock apart from 4, I was tearing my hair out with what I could do to help these Koi, I tried anything and everything topically to aid in repair but nothing appeard to work.
I then tried Betadine and followed this with Koi Clear gel, ok I know many here may feel this is nothing but a snake oil but if you was where I was a year ago you would have tried Channel number 5 if you thought it was going to help.
Anyway the one koi I treated with this healed, the skin went white and to this day the scar is minimal and scales are rejuvinating.
I still have Mercurchrome in my cupboard as well as plenty of other items that HAVE worked over the years however I have simpky had my confidence knocked and i'll now reach for Betadine and Koi gel in future first.
For pond treatment it is now PP, I have used kilo's and kilo's of CT in very high levels during my bacterial outbreak and nothing changed, after a good dose of PP with constant orp checking over 4 hours things began to turn for the better, I now have this as my no.1
As far as Biotics are concerned I have used many, and once again no such luck during my major outbreak even with advice from many health experts. I would like to have something like fortum in powder format so I can mix up instead of the bottle stuff that needs to be kept in fridge 24/7 however with no source of Vet in my area that understands koi im knackered. lol
Re: What are your successful treatments
hi all
with regards to fortum if only kept 5 antibiotics fortum would NOT make my top ten, i have two vials here if anybody want them just pay me the P&P and they are yours
Kanamycin is used at 10 mg per kilo and is my main stay now and the one i reach for first
Koi Clear gel, well more to come
dunc
with regards to fortum if only kept 5 antibiotics fortum would NOT make my top ten, i have two vials here if anybody want them just pay me the P&P and they are yours
Kanamycin is used at 10 mg per kilo and is my main stay now and the one i reach for first
Koi Clear gel, well more to come
dunc
Re: What are your successful treatments
Cheers for that Duncan. How many shots with the "Kanamycin" Best REgards Dave
Re: What are your successful treatments
EOD for three injections
are you claiming Koi gel regenerates scales once lost?Graham. wrote:Anyway the one koi I treated with this healed, the skin went white and to this day the scar is minimal and scales are rejuvinating.
- -Ozone.JPG (8.58 KiB) Viewed 4089 times
Re: What are your successful treatments
Duncan, not at all mate.
If anything I did not word that well. the area that had bacterial infection was down to the flesh, scales were plucked out (dead as a dodo) and the area that had the wound is clean and scaleless, however the scales adjacent which I trimmed back rather than plucked do appear to have survived and look in a great condition to a point they appear to be rounding up again rather than the straight cut I did.
What I found and it is probably down to my dressing the wound is that my normal applying of the wound with say Mercurchrome and seal was great, carried out by the book
however it just didnt seem to withstand staying on for long 
For the Gel side I through the rules of applying out the window and did what I felt was best, I used the Betadine after drying the area with a towel and disgarding any loss tissue and so fourth, I then took the gel direct from the fridge and using (disposal gloves) I massaged the gel between my fingers to a point it became like a honeycombe sticky mess lol, this I then massaged into the area, under the scales.
Even after a couple of days it was still clear that the Gel was on the Koi (the joy of having a koi window) for me I felt that this had given the Koi the protection it needed to heal.
These are only my observations.
Im not knocking any of the topicals as I have them all and from the number one place your chem factory
it's just I found the gel ideal, if you can mix vaseline and Mercurchrome together or something to do what im aiming for then im going to be biting your arm off to get at it lol
If anything I did not word that well. the area that had bacterial infection was down to the flesh, scales were plucked out (dead as a dodo) and the area that had the wound is clean and scaleless, however the scales adjacent which I trimmed back rather than plucked do appear to have survived and look in a great condition to a point they appear to be rounding up again rather than the straight cut I did.
What I found and it is probably down to my dressing the wound is that my normal applying of the wound with say Mercurchrome and seal was great, carried out by the book
however it just didnt seem to withstand staying on for long For the Gel side I through the rules of applying out the window and did what I felt was best, I used the Betadine after drying the area with a towel and disgarding any loss tissue and so fourth, I then took the gel direct from the fridge and using (disposal gloves) I massaged the gel between my fingers to a point it became like a honeycombe sticky mess lol, this I then massaged into the area, under the scales.
Even after a couple of days it was still clear that the Gel was on the Koi (the joy of having a koi window) for me I felt that this had given the Koi the protection it needed to heal.
These are only my observations.
Im not knocking any of the topicals as I have them all and from the number one place your chem factory
it's just I found the gel ideal, if you can mix vaseline and Mercurchrome together or something to do what im aiming for then im going to be biting your arm off to get at it lolRe: What are your successful treatments
Hi Duncan
The worst koi that I had to treat was 1 of my Sanke I treated it with iodine gentian violet and watered down MF and seal with lock and seal
the koi made a full recovery
The worst koi that I had to treat was 1 of my Sanke I treated it with iodine gentian violet and watered down MF and seal with lock and seal
the koi made a full recovery
Re: What are your successful treatments
no problem Graham
for those that dont know it goes something like this
once an ulcer starts you can pull scales and they will grow back over time, this is because under thye scale is the tiny seed of thats scales replacement which will grow once released by the scale on top, if that new one is pulled there will be a seed for want of a better word) under that which will grow and so on. this seed is in the epidermis, now if the ulcer progresses as many do and it eats through the epidermis, hyperdermis and dermis and we are down to muscle tissue "the meat" that seed and a load of other new seeds will be gone, once this happens although the koi/fish can still be cured any future scales hopes have long gone and all you will ge is a keloid scar with maybe some pigment as the pigments cells migrate from the surounding good tissue into the void
hope that clear it up there is not a treatment on the planet that can regenerate scales once the scale mechansim has gone
dunc
for those that dont know it goes something like this
once an ulcer starts you can pull scales and they will grow back over time, this is because under thye scale is the tiny seed of thats scales replacement which will grow once released by the scale on top, if that new one is pulled there will be a seed for want of a better word) under that which will grow and so on. this seed is in the epidermis, now if the ulcer progresses as many do and it eats through the epidermis, hyperdermis and dermis and we are down to muscle tissue "the meat" that seed and a load of other new seeds will be gone, once this happens although the koi/fish can still be cured any future scales hopes have long gone and all you will ge is a keloid scar with maybe some pigment as the pigments cells migrate from the surounding good tissue into the void
hope that clear it up there is not a treatment on the planet that can regenerate scales once the scale mechansim has gone
dunc
Re: What are your successful treatments
Hi.
It's a funny old game this. Some things seem to work for some, and not for others. So I'll share my two-penneth. They may seem rather unorthodox - and I'm open to being corrected - but they seem to have worked for me, and I have a bit of confidence in them.
Koi Clear Gel: Got a tub in the fridge. Only had cause to use it once - on my favourite kohaku last year which I thought was a gonner and had no chance. Appeared to be a bacterial infection around the tail tube and spreading up the back. Had already treated the pond with ct but he didnt seem to be improving. I was ready to lose him. Someone recommended KCGel and I had nothing to lose. The following photos were over a three or four week period. Only one week between pic 1 and pic 2.
Mouth Rot: Always find this a bit hit and miss. Previously treated with hp and then dilute mg - maybe 4 or 5 treatments of mg. maybe had 50/50 success. Only had one problem in the pond this year - a very small patch of mouth rot starting. After reading various accounts of pp, decided to try it. Applied a (weak) solution of pp to the mouth and dropped fish back in before it dried. Within a week the area had 'whited' over and eventually recovered after one treatment.
Also this year - rightly or wrongly - after the mouth rot, reasoning it's a bacterial issue, I treated the pond 3 days on the trot with 1gm/100gals ct in an attempt to lower the general bacteria count.
Also, on returning from summer holiday and filters not cleaned for 2 weeks, dosed the pond with mg, in an attempt to lower bacteria count. Not sure if I'm right with this one. Does mg lower bacteria count??
On the whole though, great year, which I think was given a great head start by heating a little through winter, 24/7 trickle, filter cleans every 2 days through summer. I feel this has kept my water sweeter and minimised the need to treat fish or pond chemically.
Glad to hear thoughts and comments positive/negative.
Dave
It's a funny old game this. Some things seem to work for some, and not for others. So I'll share my two-penneth. They may seem rather unorthodox - and I'm open to being corrected - but they seem to have worked for me, and I have a bit of confidence in them.
Koi Clear Gel: Got a tub in the fridge. Only had cause to use it once - on my favourite kohaku last year which I thought was a gonner and had no chance. Appeared to be a bacterial infection around the tail tube and spreading up the back. Had already treated the pond with ct but he didnt seem to be improving. I was ready to lose him. Someone recommended KCGel and I had nothing to lose. The following photos were over a three or four week period. Only one week between pic 1 and pic 2.
- tail1.jpg (146.24 KiB) Viewed 3933 times
- tail2.jpg (111.37 KiB) Viewed 3933 times
- tail3.jpg (84.55 KiB) Viewed 3933 times
Also this year - rightly or wrongly - after the mouth rot, reasoning it's a bacterial issue, I treated the pond 3 days on the trot with 1gm/100gals ct in an attempt to lower the general bacteria count.
Also, on returning from summer holiday and filters not cleaned for 2 weeks, dosed the pond with mg, in an attempt to lower bacteria count. Not sure if I'm right with this one. Does mg lower bacteria count??
On the whole though, great year, which I think was given a great head start by heating a little through winter, 24/7 trickle, filter cleans every 2 days through summer. I feel this has kept my water sweeter and minimised the need to treat fish or pond chemically.
Glad to hear thoughts and comments positive/negative.
Dave
Re: What are your successful treatments
i have a theory about this stuff, if im right its simpler and cheaper than all the smoke thats blown about ozonated oil's and koi clear, cuz you just cant capture Ozone in chemistry and the characteristics of Ozone its just not possible!!
i just need some buggered fish to prove it
i just need some buggered fish to prove it
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maxinegrundy
Re: What are your successful treatments
Hiya Dunc
I think you will remember my basic kit i took to the national show a number of years ago.
The basic kit for me which fits nicely in a standard £20 aluminium case.
Hydrogen peroxide ( Cleaning wounds & Nutralising PP)
Mecurachrome (topical)
Genitian Violet (topical)
Acriflavline Powder (topical & pond)
Koi Clear Gel (topical)
Lock n Seal (Duncs) (topical)
Orahesive powder (topical)
Malachite Green (pond)
Formalin (pond)
Chloramine T (pond)
Flubenol (pond)
PP fine crystals (pond)
I dont hold antibiotics for injection as i can get them anytime from my vets.
I do have extras on the shelf .. but this is my basic needs must kit. It just about covers everything (i hope)
Baytrl, Amacasin.
Max
I think you will remember my basic kit i took to the national show a number of years ago.
The basic kit for me which fits nicely in a standard £20 aluminium case.
Hydrogen peroxide ( Cleaning wounds & Nutralising PP)
Mecurachrome (topical)
Genitian Violet (topical)
Acriflavline Powder (topical & pond)
Koi Clear Gel (topical)
Lock n Seal (Duncs) (topical)
Orahesive powder (topical)
Malachite Green (pond)
Formalin (pond)
Chloramine T (pond)
Flubenol (pond)
PP fine crystals (pond)
I dont hold antibiotics for injection as i can get them anytime from my vets.
I do have extras on the shelf .. but this is my basic needs must kit. It just about covers everything (i hope)
Baytrl, Amacasin.
Max