Guys
Wondered what thoughts were on whether more beneficial to buffer by mixing source water with RO or buffering with Bicarb to achieve parameters/stability/KH?
I personally carry out the former, would be interested to know if there is a preferred way and why?
Regards
Kev
RO buffering-Bicarb or source water
Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
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Kevin Ellis
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Re: RO buffering-Bicarb or source water
Hi Kevin
I personally buffer my RO water with bicarb. I cannot see the point in using tap water to buffer when you are spending all your time trying to get rid of the crap in your water by using RO!
Ok if you have long periods away from home then you may have to use tap water to buffer using a PH controller. Still cannot see why you cannot dose with Bicarb using a PH controller. But thats another thing i need to sort out when i have some spare time along with recycling my pond water.
Andy
I personally buffer my RO water with bicarb. I cannot see the point in using tap water to buffer when you are spending all your time trying to get rid of the crap in your water by using RO!
Ok if you have long periods away from home then you may have to use tap water to buffer using a PH controller. Still cannot see why you cannot dose with Bicarb using a PH controller. But thats another thing i need to sort out when i have some spare time along with recycling my pond water.
Andy
Re: RO buffering-Bicarb or source water
Kev
It depends a little on your source water. I can't buffer effectively using my source water as it has very low KH readings whilst having reasonable GH readings.
You have a lot of KH content so can use source water.
On the question of whether it is good to buffer with source water - well that depends on what is in your specific source water.
Tom
It depends a little on your source water. I can't buffer effectively using my source water as it has very low KH readings whilst having reasonable GH readings.
You have a lot of KH content so can use source water.
On the question of whether it is good to buffer with source water - well that depends on what is in your specific source water.
Tom
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Gazza
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Re: RO buffering-Bicarb or source water
Hi Kev,
I think the guys have just about rapped it up but as said above it all depends on your source water to be honest especially if its a hard as ours is.
Scenario 1:
PH starts to drop add some bi carb and see the reading come back up nice and easy to do with no trouble
Scenario 2:
PH starts to drop so we turn on the source water to mix..............and forget to turn it off or keep an eye on it = PH and TDS now gone through the roof and back to running RO for months to get it back to a nice place
I like No 1 as i have cocked it up to many times with scenario 2
I think the guys have just about rapped it up but as said above it all depends on your source water to be honest especially if its a hard as ours is.
Scenario 1:
PH starts to drop add some bi carb and see the reading come back up nice and easy to do with no trouble
Scenario 2:
PH starts to drop so we turn on the source water to mix..............and forget to turn it off or keep an eye on it = PH and TDS now gone through the roof and back to running RO for months to get it back to a nice place
I like No 1 as i have cocked it up to many times with scenario 2
Re: RO buffering-Bicarb or source water
Kev,
I have tried both and actually prefer "option 2" as i find it easier to manage - just set up the balance i want and away i go.
Having said that i am in the process of taking this a step further and using PH controllers to maintain the desired PH in the pond.
ie:- The RO unit runs full time with a PH probe linked to a controller permanently in the pond water which is taking the PH reading of the pond water 24/7 (same rules apply in terms of calibration and probe cleanliness as with all meters). Then i set a low point of example PH7 - if the pond water drops below this then the PH Controller opens a solenoid valve and runs normal purified water into the pond until the PH rises above PH7 again and then turns off. This means i'm only adding source water when i NEED it rather than all the time as part of a genuine mix.
Easy enough to set up and run (i hope) - will be able to tell as soon as i get my system plumbed in although i know a few other hobbyists already running this system well.
Sure i accept that my source water isn't ideal but at least in contains some trace elements i want. Also of course you can configure your normal purifier to do the job req'd (eg remove metals if needed) or extra chlorine removal - up to the individual really.
Bi-carb to me being as unreliable as i am i found a bit hit and miss - eg:- oops! missed the low point today and so then need to boost to much for one hit and then i get more swings. The idea of the PH controllers for me was to even things out. Saying that i will keep a stock of Bi-Carb as a back up.
I have tried both and actually prefer "option 2" as i find it easier to manage - just set up the balance i want and away i go.
Having said that i am in the process of taking this a step further and using PH controllers to maintain the desired PH in the pond.
ie:- The RO unit runs full time with a PH probe linked to a controller permanently in the pond water which is taking the PH reading of the pond water 24/7 (same rules apply in terms of calibration and probe cleanliness as with all meters). Then i set a low point of example PH7 - if the pond water drops below this then the PH Controller opens a solenoid valve and runs normal purified water into the pond until the PH rises above PH7 again and then turns off. This means i'm only adding source water when i NEED it rather than all the time as part of a genuine mix.
Easy enough to set up and run (i hope) - will be able to tell as soon as i get my system plumbed in although i know a few other hobbyists already running this system well.
Sure i accept that my source water isn't ideal but at least in contains some trace elements i want. Also of course you can configure your normal purifier to do the job req'd (eg remove metals if needed) or extra chlorine removal - up to the individual really.
Bi-carb to me being as unreliable as i am i found a bit hit and miss - eg:- oops! missed the low point today and so then need to boost to much for one hit and then i get more swings. The idea of the PH controllers for me was to even things out. Saying that i will keep a stock of Bi-Carb as a back up.
Re: RO buffering-Bicarb or source water
Hi Kevin,
I am with Andy on this one, seems bonkers to me to strip out the nasties (do you trust the water board?
) from your source water just to mix 'traces' of who knows what?
If the best koi development is achieved in mudponds fed by melting snow of the jap mountains, then a jot of anything 'acceptable for human consumption' in our tap water is best left to us humans eh?
Its all about purity surely and it makes me chuckle hearing about the so called 'trace elements' as if you aint feeding the best food (we werent last year ) can you expect the 'trace elements' in tap water to make up for this???
We aint keeping koi in their natural environment so they are certainly missing something, but water devoid of impurities and toxins in the first place has got to be the starting point?
You have an impressive collection of koi Kev, certainly needing better conditions than my mutts warrant, and its your choice ultimately, but the dosing pumps and ph controllers can manage neat bicarb as well as source water.
Taking the thread a little further though, Andys comment on recycling the water, or utilising protein skimmers to remove the biological contaminants from the water would reduce the amount of water changes required, so I was wondering if you had looked at these options to maintain your water 'purity'?
Mark
I am with Andy on this one, seems bonkers to me to strip out the nasties (do you trust the water board?
) from your source water just to mix 'traces' of who knows what?If the best koi development is achieved in mudponds fed by melting snow of the jap mountains, then a jot of anything 'acceptable for human consumption' in our tap water is best left to us humans eh?
Its all about purity surely and it makes me chuckle hearing about the so called 'trace elements' as if you aint feeding the best food (we werent last year
) can you expect the 'trace elements' in tap water to make up for this??? We aint keeping koi in their natural environment so they are certainly missing something, but water devoid of impurities and toxins in the first place has got to be the starting point?
You have an impressive collection of koi Kev, certainly needing better conditions than my mutts warrant, and its your choice ultimately, but the dosing pumps and ph controllers can manage neat bicarb as well as source water.
Taking the thread a little further though, Andys comment on recycling the water, or utilising protein skimmers to remove the biological contaminants from the water would reduce the amount of water changes required, so I was wondering if you had looked at these options to maintain your water 'purity'?
Mark
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Kevin Ellis
- Nurse Shark
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:05 pm
Re: RO buffering-Bicarb or source water
Mark
Thanks post, not looked into protein skimmers.
I too understood mixing water was more stable but do see the point of why mix in crap you are trying to remove.....head further in a spin now
Regards
Kev
Thanks post, not looked into protein skimmers.
I too understood mixing water was more stable but do see the point of why mix in crap you are trying to remove.....head further in a spin now
Regards
Kev
Re: RO buffering-Bicarb or source water
Hi Kev,
I remember seeing a traditional Japanese family living with magoi in their 'pond' which wasnt really a pond, but a diverted part of the river passing their house, with a metal grate at the entrance and exist keeping the koi in there, and they were purely there to clean up the scraps from the kitchen (which was partly over the pond) and it got me thinking, thats ideally what we need, water replacing the contaminated water as quickly as possible.
I have seen some ponds alomst getting there with 1000's of gallons of RO shooting through there system.
Food for thought eh?
Mark
I remember seeing a traditional Japanese family living with magoi in their 'pond' which wasnt really a pond, but a diverted part of the river passing their house, with a metal grate at the entrance and exist keeping the koi in there, and they were purely there to clean up the scraps from the kitchen (which was partly over the pond) and it got me thinking, thats ideally what we need, water replacing the contaminated water as quickly as possible.
I have seen some ponds alomst getting there with 1000's of gallons of RO shooting through there system.
Food for thought eh?
Mark