Simply Koi and More Koi

Hi Guys,

This luckily is not something i have had to do but was chatting yesterday about a tumor on the mouth of a koi and was thinking about how i would go about it and the first thing i thought of was blood loss.

So how would you go about stopping the blood flow or cauterizing the wound

Gazza, at the rate I saw the blood clotting during my surgery, it's not something I'd worry about. i.e. it clotted almost as quickly as it came out. I think my concern would be, ensuring there is enough skin to close the wound.

Hi Chris,

Yes one thing about koi is there system is very good at clotting the problem quickly

If it was a tumor near a blood vessel that got involved in the procedure would/could it be a problem and how could we stop it

Hi gaz how about one of those caurterizing pens as used by our friend duncan, if i remember rightly didn't he show us how to use one on our hands-on day.

Hi Gary,

Yes could do and they are very handy as i do have one in my kit

Hi Guys

I have to agree with Chris on this, from what we saw when the bone was removed from the mouth on his koi, the blood will have clotted almost before you have time to pick up a cauterising pen!

Cheers

Bob

hi guys

the procedure is: cut cauterise , cut cauterise , cut cauterise "tiny steps"

you can use PP paste for this on a chewed matchstick or indeed silver nitrate

my vet has a tub with all that can be described as PP staining when he cuts the dogs toe nails to low and they start bleeding out comes a tooth pick, he rubs it around the tub that once had PP in and dabs it on the cut nail and it stops instantly



dunc

Hi Dunc,

I was watching a documentary recently and they was doing as you say cut then cauterize so i was thinking it would be along those lines. As we know the koi can deal with blood a lot better than use and clots fairly fast so i take it there isn't normally anytime when you will get a big loss before it starts to clot which is a bonus.

So as you start to cut the do you just cauterize straight away alone the cut just to make sure and if its OK carry on

I have never seen the PP paste is it just made up from PP and mixed in some way or is it something purpose made

it depends on what form of PP you have

the stuff im selling at the moment the (fine powder form)can be made into paste by the addition of a tiny amount of water where as the more less refined crystal you cant do it

yes you cut a little way see what bleeding is taking place and seal if need be before continuing

guy you must remember these fish dont carry a huge volume of blood so they really dont need to loose any if it can be helped so you need to keep it down to an absolute min

dunc

Hi Dunc,

Thanks for that i have often heard about people using PP paste and never have sen this in action or used before and a handy one to know if you ever get caught out

The blood loss was the main part about this topic as being small i don't think i would like to see a fish with much blood loss which i imagine could happen when removing a tumor or similar procedure.

Gazza

be aware you can't make PP paste from the crystal form you need the more refined finer powder
the grades are the same AR and BP but the refining has been taken that bit further to make its physical properties that much finer like flower

dunc

Gazza,
Although this is my first post, I have been following discussions on the previous forum for considerable time. I was only recently registered again on Koi Ultra Zone, so sorry for the late post.
In South Africa we get a very cheap medicine, translated it is called “steel drops”. It is of Dutch origin but also made in South Africa. It stops bleeding instantly when you do surgery in fish. I had a case once where a fish broke the bottom ray of the caudal fin, very close to the peduncle. It was bleeding profusely but these drops stopped it instantly. This liquid is applied with a cotton bud.

Hi Pieter,

Now that sounds interesting and knowing my luck i bet we cant get it in the UK.

Thanks for posting and welcome to the Ultra Zone