Simply Koi and More Koi

Last weekend I have to admit I was a little bored, so I broke one of my normal rules and bowled a few koi just to get a new picture and measure them. I would normally never do this.

One was a 78cm kohaku which went calmly into the net, calmly into the sock, calmly into the bowl, and calmy back in the pond. Note there was some sedative in the bowl as one koi I did perform a minor bit of cosmetic surgery on. But this koi in question was in the bowl for 2 minutes.

She swam away fine. An hour or so later I saw her swimming fine. Next day she was dead on the bottom. Blood from the gills but no visible damage.

I understand that this was probably a result of a burst blood vessel in the head or the gill area. Other records exist of such issues with larger koi.

But interested in get any views.

Tom

Tom,

Noting no opinions so far, and my apologies, not wanting to digress from the post, but I just had to say that I certainly feel gutted for you, and other than that, there is no doubt not a lot else I can say.

I was bowling a koi today for treatment reasons (CPE injection), and took another one out to attempt a bit of hi removal, and instantly felt that karma would be against me on the issue of 'non-necessary' intervention, so was expecting the worst. Thankfully the koi still swims for now....

What I would add to the question you pose is not a new one, but with your 'minimal bowling' strategy in mind, is it best to leave alone, when we talk about jumbo koi, or would a more regular bowling regime actually condition koi to expect/withstand bowling stress.....

I theorise that its very much down to the genetics of the koi, some can handle the stress more than others.... of course based on the seldom nature of this sort of thing, its going to be difficult to link any causality to this sort of loss....

Once again, apols, but had say something...

Mark

Hi Tom

That`s very sad isn`t it, I`m sorry for your loss.

I have heard of koi bleeding from the gills when they`ve been bowled before, obviously, where they have recovered as soon as they were replaced in their ponds, but I`ve never heard of one dying the next day. Curious.

You`d have thought that by the time she`d grown to 78cm, she`d have got used to being netted and bowled, wouldn`t you? Women eh. A thought just came to me while I was typing that, could your bowling her just have added some extra stress to her, at a time when her body is getting ready for spawning?

Chris (another one)

Tom,

I have nothing constructive to add to be honest but i do have an interest in this as i am a regular "bowler" and "photo / measure" type hobbyist as i like to know how things are going with the koi i own's development.
That said i do have one koi which on the day i bought it home i opened the box to find it full of blood so thick i couldn't see a 60cm+ koi. This koi now does not get bowled as she was a wedding present and has the "sentiment" attached to her.

I think you have a couple of factors at play here for consideration.....

a). Stress reaction to the very act of netting / bowling

b). Internal health of the koi

c). Reaction to anaesthetic (after all us human's react differently to it - I know i am violent upon waking up from general anaesthetic)

Greg

I sort of ruled out (c) as the koi was never knocked out and was swimming fine some time later.

Stress reaction remains in play.

The comment on eggs/spawning from Chris may have relevance. She was the only koi signficantly carrying weight/eggs in the pond.

The other comment I'd make is that a number of breeders won't lift (bowl) koi if they've been fed that day. Momotaro are very stringent on this. This is based on past issues of having problems with koi being lifted after feeding.

The pond had been fed lightly that day.

The other statement I have is "it happens" from a well known dealer - as in it's an inherent risk in moving large koi that they burst a blood vessel and that's the end of it. In this case, I'm only repeating what I've been told rather than making any factual statement.

Anyway, hopefully some lines of thought.

Tom

Tom,

Hmm interesting - never heard the food / bowling link before. But i have to say if the amount of food you fed the day i was at yours around 2 weeks ago is representative of the amount fed the day you bowled / lost this koi then that is an eye opener as i'd guess less than 100grams to 10-12 large koi at the most. If the food / bowling issue is that tight then i think we would hear so much more of this kind of thing.

I do think the statement "it happens" while it sounds harsh is a good place to be coming form in terms of after the event. It would be nice however to find a possible cause / set of circumstances to avoid but i suspect as with much in this hobby it is never that clear cut. Every pond and koi and hobbyist is different and trying to pin down that many variables is difficult at best.

Hi Tom,

Sorry about the the fish mate

Tough one to call to be totally honest as we can never always see what was going on but you said she was heavy with eggs could this of been something more going on than just that

Sorry for your loss Nearest I can get was treating for a large mirror type scale that was just hanging off a koi. I kind of wished I'd just left it alone because it had been trailing it around for a few weeks without a sign of a problem. Netted it, bowled it, knocked it out with a measured amount of sedative, trimmed of the scale that was not held on by much at all. Topically treat & sealed. Recovered it & off it swam. It swam round the pond a couple of times & just keeled back over & died. I could only think it was due to the stress of the whole experience & although I'll never know I can't help thinking that it might of been fine if I just left it alone Mike