Japanese matting insight

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roselanekoi
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by roselanekoi »

Hi Duncan,

Excellent explanation about Jap matting, although in my experience there is still a build up of crud over time especially in the joints between the two sheets of matting. A few years ago mother nature decided to give me a helping hand in keeping the Jap matting clean when the creatures pictured below appeared, firstly in my vegetable filter and then found their way into the matting.
IMG_0466.jpg
IMG_0466.jpg (84.1 KiB) Viewed 4447 times
The adults are about 10 mm in length and I presume are some form of freshwater shrimp. They eagerly devour any crud settling out on the matting and I can now pack as many sheets of matting together as I want without any fear of the dangers you highlighted occuring. Although after reading your explantion of how the cartridges work perhaps I would have been better keeping the old cartridge system,

Colin
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by fishy hands »

the matting has to be extremely rigid or else those legs in the interlocking parts will bend i would have thought !where does one buy good quality jap mat as it seems there are quite a few different grades out there and once you have it it to late.
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Duncan
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by Duncan »

hi
J Matting is rigid but there is some inferior stuff out there as there always is , thats not quite so rigid

the block that that link takes you to see looking at it is waaay to deep it should be 10 to 14" looking at that i would say it was much deeper

as with everything it pays most of the time to pay the money and get it done right

dunc
greg
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by greg »

Been aware of this thread for a while and only recently been able to put my experiences down in writing and also show how my filter system was (and now is set-up) and the reason's behind me making the changes.

I had a "U" shaped which was 7ft up one side and then 7ft down the other side. Through the two 4" pipes into fluidized K1 and then into the matting chamber which was set up in a popular style.

Settlement:- You can see the water enters on the right of the picture from the bottom drain and goes around the top of the picture in the bend and through 2 x 4" pipes into the K1 chamber.

Image

The matting chamber was laid out like the pond in Duncan's original scenario but with slight changes though again in that my "Bio" chamber was only 1.5ft wide. So each sheet of 2m x 1m matting i could cut into 4 sections. Meaning i had 6 full sheets in my filter (24 layers). All this was pulled through by 2 x aquamax 10,000's and through the heaters, UV etc back to the pond.

Matting Chamber:- In the picture below you can clearly see the lighter colour of the cheaper type of matting. I in fact added a few more layers (4 i think) after this picture was taken.

Image

In the beginning i was very happy with the filter as it gave me crystal clear water - so much so i could see the screws on my bottom drain diffuser. I was adding weekly dose's of Clay (300g per week) and then Magic Powder (30g per week) and Super Clean C (30g per week) and i had very little maintenance and in fact 18months in when i "cleaned" the Bio chamber there was next to nothing in there.

The few koi i had in there were fine and I of course kept growing my koi collection in numbers and size.

This then led to my issues with the filter as the koi got bigger and i had added more fish, this put pressure on the system as food rates were well up. In the end every few weeks the matting would POP out of place and i'd end up with water tracking around it, Clarity would drop off, and instead of thinking (what's up?) i just pushed it back into place and get mad at the filter.

As is well documented on the web towards the end of 2008 i began looking at improving my water (RO etc) and this also meant looking at my filter system in an effort to make controlling TDS etc through ease of maintenance etc we came to to the conclusion that it could be improved.
I made the choice that i wanted a more maintencance free set up and i sorted me a set of Bakki Showers out to replace the matting. When i went to fit the Bakki i removed the matting and the pictures below are what i found. Now i think it was approx 6-8months since i previously "cleaned" the bio-side of the filters at this point although i couldn't be 100% sure on the exact timings.

Image

Image

Image

Sure i hear the comments - "but it isn't black smelly sludge it looks light brown" - and to an extent it was but there was a "whiff" when i was removing the matting. I just personally don't see this kind of build up as beneficial to my filter or my koi and want it out of my system.

So i now run the same "U" shaped settlement - K1 Chamber and then over a 3 teir Bakki Shower. I do have 4 layers (1 x full 2m x 1m sheet cut into 4 pieces) of matting in my filter now to act as a polish and that's it. This is purely sacrificial and is pulled out and hosed off as part of my weekly filter cleaning.

Current filter set - up:- (Note the spraybar is missing as this pic was taken during the change over process)

Image

Now i know i'm lucky in that i can run the showers inside and i negate many of the "downsides" of this filter system but the gains for me and the peace of mind is huge. A simpler / cleaner filter which means more time by the pond looking at the koi rather than cleaning filters.

Currently my matting is still sitting at the bottom of my garden in case i ever want to go back to matting. If i did i certainly would not be going back to the old way i had it set up - simply a polish / shit catcher. I'd be looking to do something different where i could get less trapped waste / products in between the sheets.
roselanekoi
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by roselanekoi »

Hi Greg,

I can guarantee that if you had the little criters I posted a photo of in amongst your jap matting it would still be clean,

Colin
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by greg »

Colin,

Interesting how different systems have different "life" in them and i'm sure i'll never work out why.

Have you any explanation as to where these little critters came from? (You don't feed daphnia or a live food type substance do you?)
roselanekoi
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by roselanekoi »

Greg,

I did have a vegetable filter attached to my last filter chamber and I think it's most likely they arrived via some aquatics plants.

However, I now use this small pond for growing daphnia to feed my fry so it's also possible they arrived with the daphnia. I had the dapnia from a friend who has loads of these shrimps in one of his ponds. John's filter consists of several 1m3 plastic containers which were filled with any old filter media he could scrounge, flocor, hair rollers etc.. When he was pursuaded it might be a good idea to clean the filters he found there was nothing trapped in the filters to clean out.

Colin
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by stuartf3700 »

hello all,

been around here for a while looking around, never posted, but thought i would start now.

i would like to start by thanking duncan for a very interesting and informative thread.

to cut a long story short i have a cloverleaf cl2. i purchased it 2nd hand, and have had it running for a few months now, but since day one have not been happy with it.

the setup the last owner had was

bay 1 brushes
bay 2 areated jap mat (in the batten formation)
BAY 3 aerated k1
bay 4 original foams and alfa grog.


now after some advise on another forum i have made some changes to the filter. the current lay out is

bay 1 vortex
bay 2 brushes (have kept the air stones, but only to see if they will be ok for cleaning purposes or if they will nedd to be removed to clean)
bay 3 aerated k1
bay 4 alfagrog?foams

now what i am thinking is should i use the jap matting that i have removed from bay 2 and replace the alfa and foams, will the jap mat give me a better bio filter or will it much the same.


if it is recommended that i use the jap mat, has anyone got this in a round chamber so i can see what formation they have used.

also would it be recommended that i put airstones in???


any help would be appreciated
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Duncan
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by Duncan »

stuart hi and welcome

im just leaving for eye corrective surgery so dont know when i will be able to use the puter again but have a look at this thread just below it may clear a few things up for you it may not but at least you will be a bit wiser for now

http://www.koiquest.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=10916" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dunc
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by stuartf3700 »

Duncan wrote:stuart hi and welcome

im just leaving for eye corrective surgery so dont know when i will be able to use the puter again but have a look at this thread just below it may clear a few things up for you it may not but at least you will be a bit wiser for now

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10916

dunc

duncan,

thanks very much for the reply, i hope your surgery goes well, i have just hand surgery on both my hands for carpel tunnel and still recovering.

the water seems to be a LOT BETTER since dumping the jap mat from bay 2, i think i may invest in some more brushes and install them into bay 1, as the vortex is only about 500mm wide and after reading your post on vortex's it is not the best size for this.

since changing my media around i have found that the last chamber does not starve, i had to reduce the size of my pump due to this happening, but since removing the jap matting, i think i may be able to return to my old 8000lph pump, currently running a 5000, i will use the 5000 for the skimmer i am looking to fit in the near future, so it wont go to waste.


again after reading more threads, i have found that the brushes in bay one were not working as they were full depth of the chamber, i will get some shorter brushes so they stop above the inlet.

i will see how things go for the time being, but i think i may have sorted it, now its just a case of if the alfa is the better bio, or do i put another bay of fluid K1 in bay 4??

thanks again for the help.
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by dave22 »

Hi.

I wonder if I could ask a couple of questions. I'm a bit ignorant about filtration. I've had my pond a couple of years now, 1000 gallons. I have two pump fed 55gal barrel filters in series with k1, flowing into my old box filter which has foam layers with alfagrog underneath.

I want to try and optimise my filtration next year and get crystal clear water, but don't know what to do. I guess firstly, I haven't got loads of money to spend.

Am I right in saying that jap matting is purely used as a biological media then? And would it have a place in my setup?

My two barrels trap loads of waste, and are easy to clean. My foam also traps loads of fines, but these are a pain to clean. Could anybody recommend a better system based on what I've already got, or am I way off the mark?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Dave
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eds
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by eds »

dave22 wrote:Hi.

I wonder if I could ask a couple of questions. I'm a bit ignorant about filtration. I've had my pond a couple of years now, 1000 gallons. I have two pump fed 55gal barrel filters in series with k1, flowing into my old box filter which has foam layers with alfagrog underneath.

I want to try and optimise my filtration next year and get crystal clear water, but don't know what to do. I guess firstly, I haven't got loads of money to spend.

Am I right in saying that jap matting is purely used as a biological media then? And would it have a place in my setup?

My two barrels trap loads of waste, and are easy to clean. My foam also traps loads of fines, but these are a pain to clean. Could anybody recommend a better system based on what I've already got, or am I way off the mark?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
Dave
Hi Dave,
It'd probably be better if you started a new thread for your question rather than putting it here. It'll get more attention and answers there.
Ed
verlineUi.net
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by verlineUi.net »

nice one!! you really have provided everything i need to know.. thanks for your generosity okay.. the simple but easy understandable lecture was just perfect for me.. :mrgreen:
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by B.Scott »

Dave22,
I would like to add a small comment to your post
...I want to try and optimise my filtration next year and get crystal clear water, but don't know what to do

Try to remember that good filtration is more than just clear water. In fact I would reverse the order. I have seen plenty of ponds with clear water that was crap. In the same breath there are ponds with water less than clear that have great water. If nothing else look at a Japanese mud pond, they are about as turbid as you can get but you will find no better place to grow a fish. So many things play a part besides your filter. The greatest filter money can buy will not help if you over stock and never change water whereas a mediocre filter with low stocking and frequent water changes can be an improvement. That is just the tip of the iceberg

How much you spend on improving your filtration will depend how how handy and innovative you are. Of course you will need to just buy some things, no be able to make your own matting or Kaldness, but other things so simple to make it's laughable. Making a static kaldness pre-filter and either fluid kaldness or matting (or both) will give you a bang up filter. The down side is missing that professional polished look but if it works, who cares? If you prefer a few bob in your pocket to polish who would dare to criticize as long as it works. Look in the classic post section for some great examples of how to DIY a nice filter.

B.Scott
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Re: Japanese matting insight

Post by DAV 1 »

hi all,
In all the diagrams the water flow comes up from the bottom. Does it make any diffrence if the water flow is top to bottom in each chamber :? . As ive posted about changing to jap matting, sorry if it seems a silly question.

thank you

andy
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