Dermocystidium new treatment

[Duncan]

hi im working with a guy namely Paul Trinder, he is trialing my Proposed new Dermocystidium treatment which involves a verruca and wart freeze treatment by scholl

As well as there being no recognised treatment for this disease any such treatment had to be accessable by everyone! I first thought of liquid nitrogen but while this may have worked it was dangerous and limited thehn silver nitrate again not easily accessable. so i then thought of this podiatary treatment and if it will freeze to a point it will deal with verruca and wart its should be just the job

The kit costs around £10 and can be bought at any supermarket, this is not a toy it actually does freeze

The first trials took place 2 weeks ago giving time for recovery it looks like its not worked, but baring in mind this is being done by another guy at the moment who i dont know personally and am not sure of his capabilities ( and i mean no disrespect) but he has documented his work really well with great pictures which i will upload soon

We have plans to repeat this procedure this weekend with some mods will keep you all posted

dunc

[Duncan]

I'll Let paul explain this in his own words

dunc

Dermocystidium Treatment, January 2011

68cm Marudo Chagoi diagnosed with dermocystidium and initial treatment carried out 15.01.2011 using the following treatment regime:

- For information the water temperature on day of treatment was 16.5°C.
- Fish anaesthatised with 2-phenoxyethanol (1ml/litre, for 6-7 minutes).
- Fish moved to treatment mat and there was still some tail movement and a little bleeding from the gills.


Picture 1 - Before Treatment



Picture 2 – Before Treatment,






- Affected area wiped dry with paper towel.



- Scalpel used to pierce any white heads of the cysts. Note, only a couple of the lumps had clear white heads at the time of treatment. Each clear lump was pierced anyway.


Picture 4 – Piercing the lumps.




- Any material easily removed by applying pressure with a cotton bud was removed. Material removed appeared to be mainly blood.


Picture 5 – Clean with Cotton Bud




- 2 areas were treated – mainly at the top of the tail and just a small site at the bottom of the tail. Note the site at the bottom of the tail appeared similar to the top site before the condition deteriorated. The bottom site was far easier to treat, with 2 better defined ‘lumps’.


- In total 5 doses of the topical dermocystidium treatment were used. Each site initially turned completely white, changing to a normal colour again after 1-2 minutes.


Picture 6 – Dermo Treatment 1





Picture 7 – After Dermo Treatment 1



Picture 8 – Dermo Treatment 2


Picture 9 – After Dermo Treatment 2



- After all lumps were treated (4 doses applied to top site, 1 at the bottom site), mercurochrome was applied with cotton buds, followed by sealer, drizzled over the site and allowed to dry.


Picture 11 – Merurochrome applied





Picture 13 – Lock and Seal Drying




- Koi placed in a bowl for recovery for 15 minutes and then returned to the pond. Was immediately swimming normally and feeding the following day.


Picture 14 – Recovery in Bowl




- Koi bowled 22.01.2011 to assess progress. Little improvement seen after this 1 week period.


Picture 15 – Site 1 Week After Treatment





Picture 2 – Again, Rotated! For Comparison

[Gazza]

Hi Dunc,

I take it this will be a try it out and see and will need more treatments depending on how bad the area is.

Looks good so far

[tomy2ponds]

Hi I have had good results treating dermo when on gill plates by scraping with a scalpel down to the bony gill cover them nuking with HP 3% then Mercurochrome and sealed with lock and seal plus.Obviously this would not work on the tail as it would create a big hole in the tail.

[Paul24]

Hi,

I shall attempt to post an update on the second treatment of this....forgive me if it takes a few attempts to post!

68cm Marudo Chagoi diagnosed with dermocystidium and initial treatment carried out 15.01.2011. Second treatment carried out 05.02.2011. Treatment regime as first treatment, except more of each lump removed with a scalpel before applying the treatment.

- For information the water temperature on day of treatment was 16.5°C.
- Fish anaesthatised with 2-phenoxyethanol (1ml/litre, for 8-9 minutes).
- Fish moved to treatment mat: no tail movement and no bleeding from the gills on this occasion.

- Scalpel used to cut away top of each lump (target of 50% removal).

- Cotton bud used to clean out the ‘inside’ of each lump as thoroughly as possible. Note significant bleeding.

- In total 4 doses of the topical dermocystidium treatment were used. Each site initially turned white around the edges, changing to a normal colour again after 1-2 minutes. The centre of the cyst did not turn white – see images.

- After all lumps were treated, mercurochrome was applied with cotton buds, followed by sealer, drizzled over the site and allowed to dry. This was exactly as per the original treatment.

- As before the koi placed in a bowl for recovery for 15 minutes and then returned to the pond. Was immediately swimming normally and feeding the following day.

I've a horrible feeling the pictures will appear last first! You may have to go to the bottom and scroll up!

[Paul24]

Yes, I've posted the pictures last first. Sorry, I'll get better!

After this 2nd treatment, I was a bit concerned looking at the pictures that I hadn't really got to the 'heart' of the cysts and only the edges were frozen. This was Duncan's feeling as to why the first attempt may have been unsuccessful. I will post an update when appropriate.

I must take this opportunity to thank Duncan for his help and patience with this.

Paul T.

[Duncan]

I have told Paul i see some improvment if you look at the first of pauls attachments ttiled after 14 days this is clearly showing improments so im optomistic

cheers paul

[Paul24]

I've just read an e-mail from Duncan that has put a smile on my face.

Dunc believes that he can see an improvement in this fish. I can see a difference in the condition, but it takes a slightly more discerning eye than mine to call an imrovement! Fortunately, we're lucky enough to have a more discerning eye prepared to help.

I think I've found an easier way to post (an image of) the little reports that I send to Duncan. Fingers crossed the the attachment appears OK.

Cheers
Paul T.

PS this is the second time I've written this - it dissapeared at the first attempt!

[Paul24]

Picture of the site after 28 days (05-03-11).

I've also taken a pic of the patient.

Paul T.

[Paul24]

This weeks pics of progress (12.03.2011), including a 'close-up' image.

Any opinions on whether this looks any better are welcome.

Cheers
Paul T.

[Paul24]

This week's pics. I've included an image of the dermo starting on the other side of the tail. I guess this would have been how it started originally. Perhaps if I'd seen this and treated more promptly, I wouldn't have such a job on my hands!

I'm not feeling too optimistic about this right now, but will continue to monitor.

Paul T.

[Duncan]

paul

you gonna have to bring this fish to me mate it needs drastic intervention a do or die attempt, im based in the midlands just by lichfield

pm me if this is any good

dunc

[greg]

you gonna have to bring this fish to me mate it needs drastic intervention a do or die attempt,

Duncan,

I take it this is based upon you viewing the last set of pictures and seeing what i think is the infection spreading into the tail tube. If OK with Paul i'd like to hear your thoughts on why this is going on and the corrective action.

[Duncan]

hi greg

not really any infection in the peduncle can be corrected

originally after the second treatment i was quite optimistic but i guess it was too far entrenched . what this means is this is not like treating the same condition on a gill plate where you can get really agressive as your up against bone , if you got that agressive with this you gonna be left with a hole right through the tail

obviously we did not have any options here baring the treatment undertaken but my fear now is this fish will lose her tail or at least large part of it unless we take the bull by the horns and surgically remove this as best we can without putting a hole in the tail

what i want to do is do a scrape on the tail and l;ay some cauterizer in there and seal it in, that should burn the dermo out but again my big fear is we may burn a hole right through , but like i say this was a severe case and options were limited

dunc

[Paul24]

Hi Dunc,

Thanks for your reply.

May I ask, is it out of the question that I attempt your proposed procedure myself? If I were to end up with a hole in the tail, or partial loss of the tail, then c'est la vie......of course the welfare of the fish is the most important thing. If a stage is reached where euthanasia is kindest, please say so.

Of course, if necessary, I can bring the fish up to you, but transporting her this distance isn't a thought that I relish.

Thanks again.
Paul T.