Which Kingspan for insulation?

[TicToc]

Blimey Matt....you sure a career change isn't in order? - Grim Reaper at Disneyland, operational knowledge of all phases of hallucinatory effects; with special knowledge of how enjoy your work and pain at the same time.

[shaun18]

Hi
If this helps I used the Extratherm 25mm with foil on both sides and didn't remove it, Dave A then glassed it no problems. I used the large headed 50mm clout nails to fix to blockwork, 3 years later everything is A OK.

[TicToc]

Shaun,

Go straight to head of class, (in my opinion anyway) looks superb and as you say three years on still no problems. It looks so tidy you must be in the trade? BTW I got married in Chinley .... you know people are out on parole for murder for serving less of a sentence

Anyhow, I can only assume your heating bills are relatively small and maintaining constant temperature must be a singh. Gives me a nice warm feeling for my pond glassing coming up with 25mm insulation. I will confess to now getting inbetween nervously excited and stressed at the thought of starting the dig on 9700 gallons of new pond water in the next couple of weeks. The size might have a litle shrinkage though depending on wife (Ayatollah No 1) asking a few direct questions about the build I can't reply too without looking up to the Gods, and then attempting to expain the offside football rule in Koi language. You allknow what I mean. She thinks (has been told it won't be big ) 500 gallons will do the job nicely... I am getting off the point and worrying myself involuntarily.

Nice piccies Shaun. Good luck Jon W.

Aye

TicToc

[shaun18]

Thanks Tic Toc
Shallow end was original pond of 500 gals, but as usual decided it wasn't big enough. So out came one of the longest walls and extension was another 9 feet in length and just over 4 foot in depth. Heated by 3kw heater, but not as cheap as you might think (last winter Nov-April about£ £300.00) kept at 11 deg and all covered. I have put the covers on again already but this year will try and follow the ambient down to a minimum of 8 deg. Hope this will work out a little cheaper.

PS Self employed in property maintenance, so I suppose a little handy on the tools.

[Jon W]

Hi Mathew

I'll make sure I get the whole Umpa Lumpa protective kit before starting. The tank is in a cowshed so fortunately it's not attached to the house. The cows next door my object to the pen and ink but we'll see. I'm not scared yet because I probably don't know the full extent of what I've let myself in for! Can't be worse than climbing into my cesspit to saw off the T piece to reduce blockages!

Hi Shaun
Very nice looking finish. Incidently how did you round off your corners? Did you blockes before lining or create wedges out of wood and cover after lining the basic shape? Regarding 50mm clouts - are those roofing nail type clouts. I presume they can only be hammered into the mortar, not the blocks?

Kingpsan arrived yesterday. The delivery guy left it out in the rainstorm so it's going to take a few days to dry out.

Cheers

Jon

[shaun18]

Hi Jon
External corners can be rounded by stanley knifing the foil off about 1" width and then use P80 sandpaper to round the corner. It sands really easy and makes a smooth finish (see attached picture of bevel sanded for bottom drain).
If you can hit the clout nail square it will go into breeze block, but you could mark lines on your kingspan corresponding to the mortar joints.
Internal corners were created with house bricks stood up in corners then covered in kingspan. This helps the water flow round the pond, eliminating dead spots.

Jon wrote
Did you blockes before lining or create wedges out of wood and cover after lining the basic shape?

Can you rephrase as I don't understand what you mean?

Hope this helps

[Jon W]

Hi Shaun

Sorry about that, looks like I had a bit of a brainstorm with the keyboard! What I was trying to get at was how you created the internal corners which you've answered anyway (bricks). I was wondering whether it would be feasible to use triangular section wood secured over the top of the Kingspan, because I didn't want to wait another week for the mortar to dry out if I create internal corners with bricks. Given the pond is only 2K gals and it will have Aquamax 10000 and Sequence 12000s pumps plus an aerated dome I'm not too worried about deadspots so I think I will just round out the 90 degree angles with car filler to make life easier when applying the fibreglass.

How far did you fibreglass over the top edge of the pond walls and did you treat the blocks with anything to create a better surface of adhesion of the fibreglass? I was thinking of covering the whole of the top surface of the blocks, then having battening at the edge to create a neat finish.

Cheers

Jon

[Matthew]

Most interesting that you used bricks to make the fillet.

One of the benefits of using PU is that is can be sculptured to make fillets or radii to aid water flow without the need for a rigid backing. These can be placed vertically and horizontally on the floor. Once grp is applied over the PU you've got colossal strength. The PU doesn't give much rigidity on its own, if fact you'd snap it with your hands pretty easy but once glassed - no chance.

Here's a couple of pics showing the fillet made of foam, let me assure you there is nothing behind it and on mock ups we made we belted them with sledgehammers to break them and couldn't! Even on 12mm foam there is very little you'd break it with other than a sustained attack by an army of men.



[img]http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg61/mat ... lpic10.jpg[/img]

Glassed.

[img]http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg61/mat ... lpic12.jpg[/img]

If the fillets are already built in place with bricks/blocks/render then by all means go over them with the PU but if you don't want to lug any more bricks up and down the garden AND radius the corners off to aid water flow then simply make a fillet from the foam and grp system.

To make the fillet simply make 45's on the back of the foam to ensure it fits snug against the corners of the walls and fix in place.

[Jon W]

Hi Mathew

Are the corner fillets hollow or built up from layers of foam?

Regards

Jon

[Matthew]

Hollow.

Sorry if the other explanation wasn't clear.

I fix the foam to the walls first, now as most ponds aren't built true square there may be a gap that needs filling in the corners. It can either be filled with a slice of foam or bridged with a fillet. (the fillets also aid water flow round the pond as someone else has said.)

The fillet is cut say 4,5, or 6" wide and the back face has 45 degree chamfers sanded or cut off it with a stanley knife. When this is fitted to the corner it fits flat and flush if you see what I mean.

Tried to find some pics on my pc but can't at the moment. Also there is no need to backfill with more foam, cement, concrete or anything.

I used to fix bulkheads into RIB's (rigid inflatable boats) that used to get hammered against waves at 30 knots so have some idea of the forces involved and the strength that can be achieved with a PU/glass combo.

Don't get me wrong, Kingspan is ok to use but the stuff I use is more workable in my opinion. No need to take foil off, easily sanded, cuts better without lumps coming off it and bends round corners like Beckham can bend a free kick! This is me in an interceptor pit with a 1m diameter pre lined with 12mm PU.

[img]http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg61/mat ... 008328.jpg[/img]

[Jon W]

Hi Mathew

Thanks for elaborating on the corners - I just wanted to be totally sure before I do anything irreversible. It will be a much easier job than building up the corners with more bricks and mortar.

Regards

Jon