Justin where ya bin you could of come with us to ****** mate or was ya too busy
Herbie,there are plenty of dealers around mate i think we may have to have a few days out to show you some
which is the best of my best 3 koi ive posted on the forum.
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tomy2ponds
- Great White Shark
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:24 pm
- Location: Surrey/London borders
Hi it's the Kohaku for me the Sanke and Showa are nice too but the Kohaku is the one for me 
Personally I find with Sanke and Showa is that sometimes even when it's a really good one even say a GC at a show it all comes down to personal taste IMHO, as an example a friend of mine had a Showa that i thought was the business i loved it wanted it would have killed for it (it was not for sale as it was a pet first koi)when a very knowledgeable friend saw it and i said how much i liked it laughed and said it's a pond mutt pattern was all wrong it was a male koi so not much volume just not a good koi.But i still liked it, as said personal taste for me plays a very big part with Snake and Showa
don't i go on sorry /LEE
Personally I find with Sanke and Showa is that sometimes even when it's a really good one even say a GC at a show it all comes down to personal taste IMHO, as an example a friend of mine had a Showa that i thought was the business i loved it wanted it would have killed for it (it was not for sale as it was a pet first koi)when a very knowledgeable friend saw it and i said how much i liked it laughed and said it's a pond mutt pattern was all wrong it was a male koi so not much volume just not a good koi.But i still liked it, as said personal taste for me plays a very big part with Snake and Showa
don't i go on sorry /LEE
better pictures
greg hers better pictures.
Well, I went for the showa but in the knowledge that the kohaku is probably the more expensive of the koi and probably has the most potential. But what a showa... that showa's sumi is soooo layered/deep and shiny! Good koi, both. The kohaku is a little too heavily beni'd for my liking but that's just taste.
The sanke - well she's younger with more to do. Lack of any more underlying sumi is a bit concerning. But she has a great hi pattern, and I'm sure Del you confirmed the head will/should clear up (whiten). It's just missing sumi in it's front half to "make it happen" for me.
Tom
The sanke - well she's younger with more to do. Lack of any more underlying sumi is a bit concerning. But she has a great hi pattern, and I'm sure Del you confirmed the head will/should clear up (whiten). It's just missing sumi in it's front half to "make it happen" for me.
Tom
Hi Del
As all have concurred, 3 excellent fish, now whilst I may have been premature with my assessment of the 3 fish ( it’s all right going corrrrr I luv it ), but fish of this quality need to be appreciated for what they are, and how they got where they are today, and what can be expected tomorrow
1st The Matsunosuke Sanke.
56cm @ 18 months old whilst impressive is typical of the breeder, as length before body shape is one of his traits. Take the sumi away and you have a very presentable maruten kohaku, of quality and great promise, already developing maruzome kiwa with very pleasing sashi.
Forget the darker head and fins, we can presume this fish was photoed having recently been harvested, so the fish will clean in up in no time at all.
I believe this fish is no where near finished, so with a little luck and over time more sumi can be expected, and as the existing sumi is of excellent quality ( and you can’t say that for most young Sanke’s ) I consider this fish to be a true Tatigoi.
This fish may well supersede the others in time, but I feel you will need to wait another 4 or 5 years ( and if the fish appears to deteriorate in a year or two please stay with it, as this is another trait of the matsunosuke bloodline )
A cracking example, and a fish that any serious koi keeper, would want in their collection.
But is it the best koi at the moment, no, so my placement would be third.
2nd The Kohaku.
What an absolute monster, a bull of a fish, with a body shape to match anything I have seen at any 2006 show, but will it lengthen 3 years and 72 cm is awesome growth, but I have my doubts about if ever reaching 80cm plus ( and I really would love to be proved wrong )
But at present, the whole package, with the added dimension of such an imposing head pattern makes one gasp. Show the fish and reap your rewards.
Technically this is the best fish, but of the three, I place it second ( albeit a very close second )
3rd The Showa
Now I may be naive ( having not see many examples ) but the sumi development of this fish is absolutely stunning, if this is the type of sumi we can expect from Toshio Sakai ‘s Magoi bloodline then all I can say is bring it on.
Toshio Sakia’ s Matsunosuke bloodline is used my numerous breeders to improve their own koi bloodlines, and with his dedication to the cause I think we can expect a repeat in years to come with his new magoi bloodline, but we digress.
The showa has massive presence, the sumi saddle is most imposing, pleasing motoguro good shiro, and beni that can only thicken and develop further.
Now whilst we all can see that the beni is somewhat untidy on the shoulder, we must trust that this will tidy in time. Whilst you have not mentioned how old the fish is I think we can presume it’s 2 maybe 3 years old and far from finished.
I would not presume to predict the fishes future development, but fancy it took a fare bit of negotiating to prise away from the breeder.
For me this is the number one fish of the three, and a fish I would gladly drive from Kent to Liverpool, just to see in the flesh.
Derek Salute
Kind regards
Andy
As all have concurred, 3 excellent fish, now whilst I may have been premature with my assessment of the 3 fish ( it’s all right going corrrrr I luv it ), but fish of this quality need to be appreciated for what they are, and how they got where they are today, and what can be expected tomorrow
1st The Matsunosuke Sanke.
56cm @ 18 months old whilst impressive is typical of the breeder, as length before body shape is one of his traits. Take the sumi away and you have a very presentable maruten kohaku, of quality and great promise, already developing maruzome kiwa with very pleasing sashi.
Forget the darker head and fins, we can presume this fish was photoed having recently been harvested, so the fish will clean in up in no time at all.
I believe this fish is no where near finished, so with a little luck and over time more sumi can be expected, and as the existing sumi is of excellent quality ( and you can’t say that for most young Sanke’s ) I consider this fish to be a true Tatigoi.
This fish may well supersede the others in time, but I feel you will need to wait another 4 or 5 years ( and if the fish appears to deteriorate in a year or two please stay with it, as this is another trait of the matsunosuke bloodline )
A cracking example, and a fish that any serious koi keeper, would want in their collection.
But is it the best koi at the moment, no, so my placement would be third.
2nd The Kohaku.
What an absolute monster, a bull of a fish, with a body shape to match anything I have seen at any 2006 show, but will it lengthen 3 years and 72 cm is awesome growth, but I have my doubts about if ever reaching 80cm plus ( and I really would love to be proved wrong )
But at present, the whole package, with the added dimension of such an imposing head pattern makes one gasp. Show the fish and reap your rewards.
Technically this is the best fish, but of the three, I place it second ( albeit a very close second )
3rd The Showa
Now I may be naive ( having not see many examples ) but the sumi development of this fish is absolutely stunning, if this is the type of sumi we can expect from Toshio Sakai ‘s Magoi bloodline then all I can say is bring it on.
Toshio Sakia’ s Matsunosuke bloodline is used my numerous breeders to improve their own koi bloodlines, and with his dedication to the cause I think we can expect a repeat in years to come with his new magoi bloodline, but we digress.
The showa has massive presence, the sumi saddle is most imposing, pleasing motoguro good shiro, and beni that can only thicken and develop further.
Now whilst we all can see that the beni is somewhat untidy on the shoulder, we must trust that this will tidy in time. Whilst you have not mentioned how old the fish is I think we can presume it’s 2 maybe 3 years old and far from finished.
I would not presume to predict the fishes future development, but fancy it took a fare bit of negotiating to prise away from the breeder.
For me this is the number one fish of the three, and a fish I would gladly drive from Kent to Liverpool, just to see in the flesh.
Derek Salute
Kind regards
Andy
thanks andy for your kind comments.as you said the sumi on the sanke is comeing in the rigth places which the photo does not show.the kohaku is only 3 years old can't wait till this time next year she will be a unreal koi.and the showa is 3 years old and has loads to do as with the kohaku this time next year i can't wait.touch wood,but thanks andy.ps the breeder said in a year time the 3 koi will be top class koi so roll on a year time.he should no he as seen it all before.I will keep you all updated with pictures and there sizes in the comeing year.but thanks to you all for your kinds words.