Simply Koi and More Koi

Dave,
The point isn't whether you buy high class koi or not. The point is whether a breeder has high class koi to sell. It all come down to the choice of the breeder as to sell large quantities of lower grade fish or lower volumes of very high grade fish. I don't feel there is much room for middle ground.
I don't give a hoot if a fish comes from The US, UK or Japan. All things being equal if Mark, Maurice, Brett or Meada San breed a fish I like at a price I can afford I will consider buying it. But I'm just an averagekoi keeper like the rest of you and nobody will be able to retire on what I spend on koi. If the breeders in the west can produce the quality of the east without the cost and stress of shipping halfway around the world they will triumph in the end.

B.Scott

we all seem to be agreeing on the same thing , but going round about it, i think maurice has a fair point where the average keeper like most of us coudnt tell the difference anyway , does it really matter like scotty has said if you like the fish your buying can afford it and it pleases you whats the difference, as far as i am aware and check most of our fish daily not once have i seen ...made in japan stamped on any of em though i know some of em are from there, as are the english and malaysian from japanese brood stock, and as for lisa and marks shiros what more could you want ...buy what you like and enjoy what you have.

Hi Guys,
Interesting thread, that will be talked about as long as people breed koi.

My view is this,

The Japanese have had several generations, of developing there own bloodlines, learning from others and there own fish and then passing this information on down the generations, they have time honoured methods that are pretty much the same where ever you go in Japan, and also have the Demand to breed such vast quantities of koi.
They dont breed only show winners, they breed a large amount of junk that (especially the large breeders) they sell to wholesalers which end up being shipped by the box to Gardencentres, these are fish that some smaller breeders would throw in the nearest ditch to die as they have not room or funds to grow no profitable fish.

Also just because a fish has been bred in Japan does not guarantee massive growth rates, it all depends on the bloodlines, and the koi individual characteristics, (a tip, next time you buy a koi, look at the size of its mouth )

Israel koi are of a standard I would put as lower than Japanese ( generally) becuase they just aint had the time to learn the Japanese have.
but I would not put one in my pond personally due to there experiments with KHV.

English Koi ( in particular Cuttlebrook and Koi UK), these guys are making a bloody good go at it and as there pictures prove, they can produce some stunning koi, but unlike the japanese they dont have ponds full of top grade koi, because again like Israel they have not had the same time doing it.

All breeders, Japanese Israel, English, are learning and improving constantly, how much you can improve a particular variety? who knows, but the japanese will get there first unfortunatley.

But ask me which koi are the most hardy, strong and resiliant........

UK bred koi.