New pond build nearing completion

[Jon W]

Hi Guys

I know everyone likes to see pictures of new ponds so I thought I'd post a few pictures of my friend's pond which is nearing completion. It is a figure of eight shape, 32 feet in length with the two bowls about 18 foot at their widest. Depth is 8'6". It holds approx 24,000 gals without filters. It was built from blocks, rendered and 8 coats of G4! There are 2 bottom drains and 2 skimmers. The filter house is approx 30 foot long and contains a separate filter system for each bottom drain consisting of a Cetus Sieve and 3 very large square vortex chambers containing fluid K1 and Jap matting. Each skimmer will run to a skimmer filter box and a trickle/shower system. The project has taken just over a year to complete. Alan has undertaken much of the work himself with help from various friends and the occasional professional. For some reason my photographs make it look relatively small; if you stand next to it or in it, it looks huge. In the time it 's taken to build this, I've managed to complete a 2,000 gal growing on pond!

First picture is a general view of the pond and filter house.

[img]http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc72/dsp ... CT0035.jpg[/img]

The second and third shots are of the inside of the pond. The owner is present to try to convey scale. Unfortunately he's quite a big bloke so he tends to make the pond look smaller than it actually is.

[img]http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc72/dsp ... CT0029.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc72/dsp ... CT0032.jpg[/img]

The last 2 shots are inside the filter house. Note the rather niftily positioned viewing window which looks right through the whole pond. There are plans for a viewing bench and a coffee machine to be added at a later date. The big cube like things are not modern art installations but plinths for the various filtration system components.

[img]http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc72/dsp ... CT0038.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc72/dsp ... CT0037.jpg[/img]

Work has just started on the plumbing and finishing off of the filter system. It should be up and running in another 3 to 4 weeks.

Any questions please ask.

Cheers

Jon

[Bob Hart]

Big pond Jon, looking good so far.

Advise him not to use that 4" Kockney Koi ball valve (yellow handle) in the first filter picture, they are crap and will cause him some heart ache in the future when he cant close/open it.

[Louie]

Wow, that's certainly some pond!
Is it going to be heated?
Keep the pictures coming!

Louie

[Jon W]

Hi Bob

Will pass on advice re. ball valves!

Hi Louie

There has been talk of heating, but I think it is definitely be a second phase operation. There is room for a boiler and heat exchanger. The only practical method would be using oil (no mains gas available around the area).

Cheers

Jon

[Louie]

Do you mind if I ask why your friend decided to go for G4 instead of fibreglass? Is the G4 finish as good as fibreglass, and how would the two different methods have varied in cost? I realise it's a huge area to cover; but 8 coats seems a hell of a lot!!!!!

[Jon W]

Hi Louie

It would have been much more expensive to fibreglass. I think the G4 came in at just over £1,000 but he did get a very good deal from someone locally who is in the trade. I think generally people apply 3 coats of G4 to get a reasonable finish. Because of the pond shape there was a slight over estimation of the amount of G4 required, so it was applied until it ran out which took 13 hours continuous application and ended up at 8 coats.

Personally I would always use fibreglass because I think it gives a far superior and much longer lasting finish. However I'm sure there are a lot of people who would disagree with me and have had ponds which have lasted well using G4. I've got a pond which is about 8 years old and a lot of the G4 has started flaking off; it came with the house so I don't know the circumstances of the application but it has put me off using it as an alternative to fibreglass. I believe the longevity of the finish is determined by preparation of the surface to be painted and how carefully it is applied. As far as I know he didn't get any quotes for fibreglassing but it would have been significantly more than using G4. Also I have had experience of trying to get quotes locally and the only one I could get seemed to be 3x the rate in other parts of the country i.e. it was £18-20 per layer per metre. At the time the going rate elsewhere was something like £18-22 for 2 layers of matting, 1 tissue coat and a flowcoat. I ended up doing my own fibreglassing but it was a miniscule project compared with this one. Due to it's sheer size I think this project could only have been comleted by a professional fibreglasser.

Regards

Jon

[herbie]

Jon
you start this post last week. Has the pond been filled yet?

Best Regards

[Jon W]

Hi Herbie

Um, not quite. Still doing the pipework for the filtration system; there was a bit of head scatching re. the best way to create equalisation loops for the sieves; I'm going over tomorrow to help - hopefully we can get everything done for the bottom drain lines and start filling.

Cheers

Jon

[Bob Hart]

Jon,

having reread the first post again, you say 24000 gallons and there is only 2 bottom drains and 2 sets of filters? Plus the skimmer filtration. Two bottom drains does seem on the small side for a pond of this size. Ponds of circa 8000 gallons usually have 2 bottom drains and 2 sets of filters. So what turnover if your friend looking for?

also, a Cetus sieve followed by 3 Vortex filters? How will you get the water back to the vortex's after the sieve. Generally you pump from a sieve, although I have seen an EA set up in the manner you describe.

[Jon W]

Hi Bob
I can't do anything but agree with you on number of bottom drains and filter lines; if it was me I would have done things very differently. However I've only got involved comparatively recently. I discussed the minimum turnover of total volume once every 2 hours rule of thumb, but equipment was bought some time ago so things might be going down the path of learning by practical experience. It's kind of tricky when it's not your own project; I don't feel in a position to dictate over how things should be done (I'm in danger of sounding like a particular Harry Enfield character as it is - "You don't wanna do it like that, you wanna do it like this!).

Each filter line is gravity fed to the Cetus, there is then a Sequence 12,000s between the Cetus and the vortex chambers. This will be plumbed in with an equalisation loop as shown in the Cetus manual (Ken at Coldwater was very helpful with this as well). A Sequence 10,000 is installed after the filters to return water back to the pond. Even with bigger pumps the turnover wouldn't reach once every 2 hours due to the restrictions of the max flow through 4" pipework. The only solution I can think of is to beef up all the pumps, convert the the skimmers to 4" returns whihc lead to massive trickle towers/showers.

I must admit if it had been me I would have built a much smaller pond with a much larger filtration system. About the first conversation I had on Koi Quest was with Gazza re. pond design and water quality. At the time I had this ludicrous notion that the size of pond should be directly in proportion to the size of the fish (my only experience was in tropicals) and I'd worked out I would need something enormous just to keep koi at all). After 2 years of reading and viewing Koi Quest I now have a pretty good idea of what is appropriate in terms of turnover and filtration capacity. My 1,700 gal growing on pond has a Cloverleaf CL3, a medium sized Bubblebead and a 4" skimmer line leading to a bakki shower (though still saving for the BHM).Turnover will be approx x2.5 per hour. I'm just designing a new main pond. The one thing I can't decide on is filtration method. I'm quite tempted by Waddy's ERIC approach, but nearer the time I will start a thread here on the economics vs efficacy of different filtration systems.

Cheers

Jon

[Bob Hart]

Jon,

Yopu sound like you understand filtration a lor more than your friend. A big pond is a bugger to filter properly and costs a fortune to do so, so I wish him well with his project. There are things he could do, but it would involve showers and pumping from the bottom drains to them. The skimmer lines alternativly, as long as he drilled them out and fitted 2" pipework, he could pump these to a bead or showers. Sieves could be fitted if uprated to 4" pipes from skimmers. All is possible, but I'm guessing he will understand what he's doing isnt enough over time.

[Jon W]

Hi Bob
I know a bit, most of it has been learned via Koi Quest supplemented by the Koi press (which I think is a little misleading at times to say the least). I think your right; once the current system is underway and stocking begins, the necessity for additional filtration and higher turnover will become apparent. There is plenty of scope in terms of space for modifications and additions. The only issue is that these things seem to cost more than if a system was specced out appropriately at the beginning. Also I'm rather glad it isn't going to be my electricity bill!

As far as the skimmer lines are concerned I think it might be possible to even convert to 4" should this be deemed advantageous.

Regards

Jon