One I did yesterday

[B.Scott]

Question.Why can't a solar unit (on the roof) provide power (via electric cabling) to an external element/pump, close to the pond to circulate and heat pond water? Am I barking mad or have I missed something.

TicToc

It can Max but you will need a sh1t-load of them to do it. How many sq feet of photo electric cells do you think it takes to generate the 3kw you will need to heat the pond?

B.Scott

[Andy E]

Not sue how i'm going to break it to the neighbours. But I think it's time to get one of these in the garden!

http://www.solarwindpowercentre.co.uk/produ ... w-max-/60/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Should just about run the pond, as long as we don't have a freak non wind year, which would be just my luck!!!



Andy

[vippymini]

looks like another diy job to do then andy.
shopping list:-
big pole
propellor
big alternator
a few car batteries
power invertor.
lots of wire.

job done....
oh and you might need a wind mahine to plug in on those still days
best just buy one of these and be done with it
[img]http://www.segen.co.uk/images/WestwindRounded.JPG[/img]
youll be the talking point of the town for a good few months.

edit:
youll just love this
http://www.mdpub.com/Wind_Turbine/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TicToc]

OK, OK I haven't got the time to do as much research as you guys. I.E. The name TicToc.

BUT based on concepts offered on this thread so far. EG. the water that is heated is getting to hot and unregulated, know one wants to risk cooking their Koi. Why not therefore set the whole thing up as a heat exchanger? Keep the hot water sealed within a self circulating pipe and have the same pipe entering the pond (still sealed - like a hot water bottle) and losing the heat by exchange with ambient water temperature in the pond?

Shall I get my coat

PS. Scott, Solar Units are all subsidised in Europe and you can even flog it back into the Grid at an inflated rate to encourage you Eurpoeans to be all self sufficient. Give us a spare unit first Scott?
Regards
TicToc

[B.Scott]

I do have a 13" X 8' photo electric panel in the garage which I will be installing on the roof of the garage to power some lights come winter. The garage itself is about 150 yards from my house and not connected to the grid.

B.Scott

[Andy E]

Tictoc,

Did a bit of reading on solar panels and I think your right about the heat exchange route. It seems on the DIY solar panels your get the best results using small bore copper tubing which isn't very expensive. But really to run this you would want a closed system with heat exchanger then you can add inhibitor to the pipes to stop the clogging up. There are some great DIY site out there, but in the uk you will need to really watch the winter as you could be making a very efficent fridge unit!

Now where can I buy some 4ft light weight prop blades...Ebay?

Andy

[vippymini]

did you not read the link on the homemade windy thing. he used 4"plastic pipe to make the prop
[img]http://www.mdpub.com/Wind_Turbine/images/blades2.jpg[/img]
now what self respectig koi-keeper doesnt have some 4" pipe hanging around in the shed.

[Andy E]

Yep I did. But I came to the conclusion he was a nut case! Seriously, mad as cheese!!
They should and do work in his case, it's just I use to fly model planes and remember the problems of balancing the buggers on a small scale so though this looked a bit dodgey. Specially as his first ones broke, the neighbours would love me even more if bits of my 60ft high (got to get over the house, built up area) windturbine went through their windows. I know with the slow rotation the balance shouldn't be a problem but....

Andy

[Andy E]

Looks like the bureaucrats may have something to say about my 60ft'er

http://www.planningni.gov.uk/Devel_Control/ ... _farms.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Andy

[Gazza]

Blimey Andy surly your not thinking about a wind farm

I think many of the smaller ones have been taken off the market as the cheaper ones worked out it took something like 140 years of pay back Know a neighbour behind us had one installed and it was taken down within six months so it couldn't of been that good

[Andy H]

I was thinking of 10-15mm plastic fish friendly pipe gravity fed from filter to settlement chamber.
Insulated box with glass cover, matt black pipes.
cost nothing to run.
My back of the fridge thig produced hot water and steam.

ps:not enough room for the wind turbine and they reckon you need 10mph average wind speed, well when we get the gusts of 30-40mph near Gatwick the average is only 10-14mph and it is not that often we get those gusts!
So wind generation is no-where near what we need where I live.

I did think about it but having a weather station that they use in north and south poles(vantage pro2) it is fairly acurate in saying that there is no point in you having a wind turbine!!!

My question is this... there are arguements that the backing should be silver or matt black

matt black to collect more heat into the box or silver to reflect the suns rays from the back of the box back onto the black matt tubes.....

So until I find the answer I will not build it but just collect the parts...

bearing in mind I am not talking solar voltaic cells but solar water heating which needs real sunlight to work.

but in the uk you will need to really watch the winter as you could be making a very efficent fridge unit!

What do you mean by this???????

[Andy E]

Hi Andy,

One of the googles sites I was reading today (google DIY solar heating) mentioned that on good british winter days (no real sun) as long as the system was continously pumped to stop freezing (hence my heat exchange preference) they could quite effectively reduce the temp. of water by a lot quite quickly can't remember the figures but it was something like 5degs on 1000lts in 24 hours.
Sorry didn't take a note of the site, it may be in my cache at work, so will look tomorrow.

Regards,

Andy

[GDL]

Hi Tic Toc,

from what I have read it is much more efficient to collect heat than to generate electricity.
It looks like the best PV panels (that generate electricity) are only about 12% efficient, but a water heating panel can be 70%.

You would need a much larger panel area to generate electricity to heat the water than to just heat the water.

Of course you could do a bit of both and generate electricity just for the pumps.

Having looked at solar for water heating I notice that water is only pumped through the panels when heat is needed. When the water is hot enough the pump stops and the panel drains into a reservoir. This stops the water boiling in the panel.
(some food for thought for the DIY designers )

The advantage of using old double glazing for the glass panels is that you could even get some with K glass that will capture even more heat.

Cheers

Gordon

[TicToc]

Gordon nice one.

You would need a much larger panel area to generate electricity to heat the water than to just heat the water.

Of course you could do a bit of both and generate electricity just for the pumps.

Me thinks its back to the drawing board and refocus on water movement or waves but I do like the re-generation theory.


Maybe, if we use water falling through the shower/waterfall/pump returning back to the pond that we all take for granted and pay for. What IF we can fit somekind of retro paddle system, similar to the wind turbine turning but its simply wet? OK its not harvesting the free sunshine (that's I laugh this year) or wind but thats still free running kinetic power, that none of us ( I'm aware of) or suppliers seem to be havesting........... ........don't tell me you discussed this last week and I missed the thread!

Regards,
TicToc

[TicToc]

Net Power = Gross Power x Efficiency

While some power losses are inevitable as water power gets converted to electricity, they can be minimized with good design. Each aspect of your hydro system, from water intake to turbine-generator alignment, affects efficiency. Turbine design is especially important.

now what self respectig koi-keeper doesnt have some 4" pipe hanging around in the shed.

Now just need a bit of selotape and a pair of scissors!