Hi garfield.
Its the showa seemed better yesterday but i checked this morning and he is still struggling,
Yes my shiro is looking quite pink but seems alot happier than he was a few days ago definately got affected quite badley.
I am not squemish but i would worry if i had to stick a needle in as i may get it in the wrong place.
what if i put him in my q tank where its warmer 15c hes a big boy but if it would help him i have others in there growing on.
temp for treating prazi combo as i got problems!
Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
Re: temp for treating prazi combo as i got problems!
update on fish with problems.
well all is good did several large water changes and parameters back to normal big showa now swimming normally just the shiro with a bit of red on his back but getting smaller all ravenous and active \phew!
Thanks to every one who gave me advice very much appreciated.
well all is good did several large water changes and parameters back to normal big showa now swimming normally just the shiro with a bit of red on his back but getting smaller all ravenous and active \phew!
Thanks to every one who gave me advice very much appreciated.
-
Manky Sanke
- Site Admin
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:24 am
Re: temp for treating prazi combo as i got problems!
Amanda and anyone who looks into the posts on this site for information about koi health and good husbandry.
The message that should be taken away from this situation is that high nitrite values, (anything above 0.2 mg/L), cause many problems in koi. Long term effects include internal organ damage, a depressed immune system , slow growth and many other effects but there is a more immediate problem that can be fatal in the short term, long before other internal problems have a chance to become serious.
The immediate problem is that sustained nitrite levels above 0.2 mg/L cause accumulating and increasing respiration difficulties.
The full explanation is too complex for a simple take away message but can be briefly summed up in this way:
Haemoglobin in red blood cells is the main way in which oxygen is absorbed into the bloodstream at the gills and transported around the body. Each haemoglobin molecule can carry four oxygen atoms which can be given to cells that need it and then it returns to the gills ready to pick up four more. This process is continuously repeated.
If the pond nitrite level becomes high, the haemoglobin can pick up nitrite by mistake and will then become permanently unable to carry oxygen. Haemoglobin that has been affected in this way is called methaemoglobin (pronounced met-haemoglobin). As more and more haemoglobin becomes methaemoglobin, the respiration system becomes increasingly inefficient and this can lead to slow suffocation, even in well aerated water.
Each red blood cell has a lifetime of about 90 to 120 days before it is removed and recycled as a new blood cell complete with new haemoglobin so, if the nitrite level is reduced, the situation will slowly begin to self-repair over a few weeks and the respiration system will return to normal over time, with a full recovery after three to four months.
Salt is a good, often under-rated medication for a range of parasites and for general relief from stress but it can have detrimental effects if used as a permanent addition to a pond so it should be only used as a short term dip or a medium term aid to recovery in a hospital tank. With that in mind, I never advocate adding salt to a koi pond except in the case of a first aid treatment for koi in a pond that has a high, sustained nitrite level that has caused increasingly significant and noticeable respiration problems for the koi. I wouldn't bother if the nitrite level wasn't too high and was reduced to near-zero within a few days but high levels that have existed for several days will have caused significant damage to the haemoglobin and koi will benefit from the addition of salt to their pond.
Salt cannot cure nitrite poisoning but it will help to reduce the rate at which haemoglobin is being converted to methaemoglobin.
The salt level doesn't have to be very high! It only has to be ten times higher than the nitrite level in order to provide the required nitrite blocking level. Higher levels are not more effective and risk the slow damage to the osmoregulatory system that is now being realised as being attributable to the long term use of salt.
As an example; a nitrite level of 1 mg/L only requires a salt level of 10 mg/L in order to mitigate nitrite damage and a very high nitrite level of 5 mg/L only requires a salt level of 50 mg/L.
Dosages in terms of pond volumes:
A nitrite level of 1 mg/L only requires 10 grams per 1,000 litres of pond volume in order to provide protection against the effects of nitrite poisoning. For those who prefer gallons, 50 grams of salt per 1,000 Imperial gallons is only slightly in excess of that and is an easily remembered amount.
A nitrite level of 5 mg/L only requires 50 grams per 1,000 litres of pond volume in order to provide protection against the effects of nitrite poisoning. For those who prefer gallons, 230 grams of salt per 1,000 Imperial gallons is only slightly in excess of that and is an easily remembered amount.
The message that should be taken away from this situation is that high nitrite values, (anything above 0.2 mg/L), cause many problems in koi. Long term effects include internal organ damage, a depressed immune system , slow growth and many other effects but there is a more immediate problem that can be fatal in the short term, long before other internal problems have a chance to become serious.
The immediate problem is that sustained nitrite levels above 0.2 mg/L cause accumulating and increasing respiration difficulties.
The full explanation is too complex for a simple take away message but can be briefly summed up in this way:
Haemoglobin in red blood cells is the main way in which oxygen is absorbed into the bloodstream at the gills and transported around the body. Each haemoglobin molecule can carry four oxygen atoms which can be given to cells that need it and then it returns to the gills ready to pick up four more. This process is continuously repeated.
If the pond nitrite level becomes high, the haemoglobin can pick up nitrite by mistake and will then become permanently unable to carry oxygen. Haemoglobin that has been affected in this way is called methaemoglobin (pronounced met-haemoglobin). As more and more haemoglobin becomes methaemoglobin, the respiration system becomes increasingly inefficient and this can lead to slow suffocation, even in well aerated water.
Each red blood cell has a lifetime of about 90 to 120 days before it is removed and recycled as a new blood cell complete with new haemoglobin so, if the nitrite level is reduced, the situation will slowly begin to self-repair over a few weeks and the respiration system will return to normal over time, with a full recovery after three to four months.
Salt is a good, often under-rated medication for a range of parasites and for general relief from stress but it can have detrimental effects if used as a permanent addition to a pond so it should be only used as a short term dip or a medium term aid to recovery in a hospital tank. With that in mind, I never advocate adding salt to a koi pond except in the case of a first aid treatment for koi in a pond that has a high, sustained nitrite level that has caused increasingly significant and noticeable respiration problems for the koi. I wouldn't bother if the nitrite level wasn't too high and was reduced to near-zero within a few days but high levels that have existed for several days will have caused significant damage to the haemoglobin and koi will benefit from the addition of salt to their pond.
Salt cannot cure nitrite poisoning but it will help to reduce the rate at which haemoglobin is being converted to methaemoglobin.
The salt level doesn't have to be very high! It only has to be ten times higher than the nitrite level in order to provide the required nitrite blocking level. Higher levels are not more effective and risk the slow damage to the osmoregulatory system that is now being realised as being attributable to the long term use of salt.
As an example; a nitrite level of 1 mg/L only requires a salt level of 10 mg/L in order to mitigate nitrite damage and a very high nitrite level of 5 mg/L only requires a salt level of 50 mg/L.
Dosages in terms of pond volumes:
A nitrite level of 1 mg/L only requires 10 grams per 1,000 litres of pond volume in order to provide protection against the effects of nitrite poisoning. For those who prefer gallons, 50 grams of salt per 1,000 Imperial gallons is only slightly in excess of that and is an easily remembered amount.
A nitrite level of 5 mg/L only requires 50 grams per 1,000 litres of pond volume in order to provide protection against the effects of nitrite poisoning. For those who prefer gallons, 230 grams of salt per 1,000 Imperial gallons is only slightly in excess of that and is an easily remembered amount.