Duncan,
Just wondering what the advantages and disadvantages of the 2 are?
For me flubenol is cheaper, doesn't seem to affect the koi like telmin and superverm used to and you say it has an effect on gill fluke eggs.
So why would you want prazi??
Am I missing something other than the fact you seem to be able to dose prazi with FMG thus having a 1 hit wonder?
Does 1 stay in the water longer than the other?
Just curious.
Jane
Praziquantel versus Flubenol
Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
Re: Praziquantel versus Flubenol
Jane
To be honest for me, there is not much in it for cost, for a 5500 gallon pond flubenol is around £26 and £44 in prazi for 6600. so I think you will agree for what we spend and waste in this hobby it amounts to pennies, there not a lot in it cost wise
I was using flubenol 5% in the early 2000's way years before fluke M and most folks had even heard of it, and it was back then deadly but back then hardly anyone had heard of it and back then I used it as opposed to supaverm because it was not so deadly with other species of fish and had a wide spectrum of action (liver fluke etc).
But as with all things sadly the bugs have built resistance to it as people started to use it like confetti, Just Like supaverm and it being shipped over in huge amounts the Japanese started throwing it in like it had gone out of fashion and it soon became less effective with fish coming over with resistant fluke, till finally a few years ago I was seeing and getting loads of reports of it not working at all!
yes it does work on the eggs but that not 100% guaranteed because as we all know the eggs can escape in various places if they are in built up sludge for instance which most ponds have somewhere and some in spades, so eggs can escape in one way or another
The final blow for flubenol came for me when the vets declared you had to give a heard number to get it, which as you know is a tag or tattoo on the pigs ear denoting the heard and the farmer , no heard number no flubenol, so the cheap source for this has long since vanished before this it was around £30 for 600 gm but now your forced to buy 65 gm for £26
now we come to prazi, prazi has been used for some years in the US koi hobby marketed as "Prazi pond" by Tim holder unlike flukesolve its the 100% raw ingredient ( flukesolve is 50%) yes its a pig to dissolve but its manageable, but when it comes to using Prazi in the UK its relatively new and more importantly has not been used by the Japanese in any great abundance so the bugs have not built any resistance to it YET, now as far as I know it does not work on eggs but it has a wider spectrum of action and its well documented as working on things like trich and as we know trich has built its own resistance to PP so that's a coo in itself
yes for gill fluke you have to use it twice so its double the cost but then again you may have to do that with flubenol so that may well cancel itself out
the bottom line is:
the cost is similar now
flubenol has built a resistance into the fluke through over use the other has not
prazi has no spectrum of action on fluke eggs flubenol does
both work on internal parasites
last but not least Prazi can work on other external parasites, flubenol is just a nematode trematode action
both have strengths and weaknesses you pay your money you take your choice it would be a funny old world had we no choice
dunc
To be honest for me, there is not much in it for cost, for a 5500 gallon pond flubenol is around £26 and £44 in prazi for 6600. so I think you will agree for what we spend and waste in this hobby it amounts to pennies, there not a lot in it cost wise
I was using flubenol 5% in the early 2000's way years before fluke M and most folks had even heard of it, and it was back then deadly but back then hardly anyone had heard of it and back then I used it as opposed to supaverm because it was not so deadly with other species of fish and had a wide spectrum of action (liver fluke etc).
But as with all things sadly the bugs have built resistance to it as people started to use it like confetti, Just Like supaverm and it being shipped over in huge amounts the Japanese started throwing it in like it had gone out of fashion and it soon became less effective with fish coming over with resistant fluke, till finally a few years ago I was seeing and getting loads of reports of it not working at all!
yes it does work on the eggs but that not 100% guaranteed because as we all know the eggs can escape in various places if they are in built up sludge for instance which most ponds have somewhere and some in spades, so eggs can escape in one way or another
The final blow for flubenol came for me when the vets declared you had to give a heard number to get it, which as you know is a tag or tattoo on the pigs ear denoting the heard and the farmer , no heard number no flubenol, so the cheap source for this has long since vanished before this it was around £30 for 600 gm but now your forced to buy 65 gm for £26
now we come to prazi, prazi has been used for some years in the US koi hobby marketed as "Prazi pond" by Tim holder unlike flukesolve its the 100% raw ingredient ( flukesolve is 50%) yes its a pig to dissolve but its manageable, but when it comes to using Prazi in the UK its relatively new and more importantly has not been used by the Japanese in any great abundance so the bugs have not built any resistance to it YET, now as far as I know it does not work on eggs but it has a wider spectrum of action and its well documented as working on things like trich and as we know trich has built its own resistance to PP so that's a coo in itself
yes for gill fluke you have to use it twice so its double the cost but then again you may have to do that with flubenol so that may well cancel itself out
the bottom line is:
the cost is similar now
flubenol has built a resistance into the fluke through over use the other has not
prazi has no spectrum of action on fluke eggs flubenol does
both work on internal parasites
last but not least Prazi can work on other external parasites, flubenol is just a nematode trematode action
both have strengths and weaknesses you pay your money you take your choice it would be a funny old world had we no choice
dunc
Re: Praziquantel versus Flubenol
Thanks Duncan,
Problem is a couple of years back several people, myself included, found flukesolve also did not work. It may be due to not dissolving it who knows. I do know we tried it at the cost of almost £100 to treat our pond and they were back within a couple of weeks (skin flukes) so have gone back to flubenol which you can get from your Vet at a fraction of the cost so that's what I have been using. At least with the new arrivals being in the tank it will cost peanuts for prazi IF the flubenol hasn't done it!
Oh yes I also used the prazi that time because of its reported effect on trich as that year we were also plagued with a really small strain of trich that kept coming back and it did nothing .......
Problem is a couple of years back several people, myself included, found flukesolve also did not work. It may be due to not dissolving it who knows. I do know we tried it at the cost of almost £100 to treat our pond and they were back within a couple of weeks (skin flukes) so have gone back to flubenol which you can get from your Vet at a fraction of the cost so that's what I have been using. At least with the new arrivals being in the tank it will cost peanuts for prazi IF the flubenol hasn't done it!
Oh yes I also used the prazi that time because of its reported effect on trich as that year we were also plagued with a really small strain of trich that kept coming back and it did nothing .......
Re: Praziquantel versus Flubenol
Jane
I'm not talking about flukesolve im talking about Praziquantel, just like I don't talk of mazusi koi sedate or phenoxitol in the same sentence as 2-phenoxyethanol! as with fluke solve they are watered down.. I could care less about fluksolve since the other 50% is unknown and they choose to keep it that way fluke solve is only 50% only prazi with no specific dissolving instructions and it needs to be dissolved into something just as flubenols needs acetone or it just lies on the bottom.. the discus guys who were the very first to use it will show and tell you that as they can see it first hand
Most folks don't have access to a vet that will give you flubenol, I have try and think of the hobby as a whole and what accessible!!!
you pay your money you what you want.. but Pleeeese don't tell me folks can get it from the vets.. you and I both know that's bollocks! so let's not go there.
I have another yet completely new flukacide waiting in the wings that I can 100% guarantee nobody has used but me, and for now that's where its staying
I'm not talking about flukesolve im talking about Praziquantel, just like I don't talk of mazusi koi sedate or phenoxitol in the same sentence as 2-phenoxyethanol! as with fluke solve they are watered down.. I could care less about fluksolve since the other 50% is unknown and they choose to keep it that way fluke solve is only 50% only prazi with no specific dissolving instructions and it needs to be dissolved into something just as flubenols needs acetone or it just lies on the bottom.. the discus guys who were the very first to use it will show and tell you that as they can see it first hand
Most folks don't have access to a vet that will give you flubenol, I have try and think of the hobby as a whole and what accessible!!!
you pay your money you what you want.. but Pleeeese don't tell me folks can get it from the vets.. you and I both know that's bollocks! so let's not go there.
I have another yet completely new flukacide waiting in the wings that I can 100% guarantee nobody has used but me, and for now that's where its staying