Showa swollen and not breathing

[Pinnacle]

All,

Need some advise.
My 69cm Showa is swollen just past the gills on one side. He's not using that gill to breath and also has a couple or raised scaled.
He spends his time at the top of the pond, but not gasping at the surface and is still eating.

Can you take a look at this vi I took through the pond window and let me know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpsotlcnbKU

also have one from above so you can see the swelling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1Wl7jf-Kw

[Duncan]

hi

yes that looks like an abscess, a very small incision is called for or a wide gauge needle say a 18 gauge and try and draw off fluid dont go in to deep certainly no more than 1.5 cm

dunc

[Pinnacle]

Thanks Duncan.

I don't think this is something I can do and would rather pay to get someone in with more experience. Do you know of anyone in the Romford area?

[Pinnacle]

My wife works for Harley Street medical group so she is going to get my a needle and syringe.

So just to be clear. I sedate the koi using the normal method and then at 90 degrees I enter the cresent shape cavity behind the pectral fin no more than 1.5cm.
I'm a bit worried as this is the location of the heartbut I guess I should have a few cm either side right?.

I will first check if the swelling is soft as if it's hard that will point to a tumor right? Or is this not necessarily the case?

[Pinnacle]

Duncan or anyone else with the knowledge.

I've done what you said and got some light bown fluid out. Can you check the video as the koi is looking worst by the day. The video is only 2 hours old. the koi is now back in the pond and swimming fine and acting fine although as you can see in the vid the infection is not looking good at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00XqPN25En0

Please advise.

[Pinnacle]

This is that Bowen fluid I extracted at x800 magnification


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ent_XpSGkMY

[Gazza]

Hi Stu,

Yes as you can see in the vid it does look nasty so it may be a bit of fingers crossed and a waiting game.

Did you have a good feel about and push to see if anything moves or comes out ?

The position is a bugger as its a moving part and these can always be troublesome areas.

[Pinnacle]

had a prod about before and after the syringe. Only brown fluid came out no puss (unless this is classed as puss ???).

I've treated the pond this evening with CT to try and halt the infection but I think I need something a lot stronger.

[Duncan]

hi there

good documentation mate hats off

keep doing what your doing (draining it) and i think you may need an antibiotic injected in the pec muscle to help things along

the C/T is a great move, trouble is this will cut down the bacteria externally but most of this is internal, so like is say you may need an antibiotic as well as

dunc

[Pinnacle]

Yes, the CT was to remove any bacteria invade it got into where the needle went in. Also the pectoral muscle looked red and sore.

Stumped for antibiotics at the moment as I've phoned around 5 vets in the area and none of them specialise in koi and all want me to bring the koi in. I'm more than happy to pay for the services of a koi specialist if I could only find one.

Taking a 70cm koi plus water to a vet is no easy task and also adds stress to the koi.

[Pinnacle]

Spoke to a vet today who specialises in both fish and birds. He says it will need antibiotics and I should not continue to syringe the fluid out as it would do more harm than good.

I have a book at home which I consider to be the bible of koi and it's written by Duncan so I know who I would rather listen to, but I think I really need antibiotics.

The vet is not available for 2 weeks and I would have to take the koi to him.
I'm starting to fear that I will loose him.

[ageinghippy]

You dont say whereabouts you are based, but how about trying `Tommy2ponds`, also a member on here. He is very good at treating koi, and doesn`t seem to mind a drive. I`d be tempted to give him PM, and see what he thinks.

Chris

[Pinnacle]

Hi,

Sorry, I'm in Romford, Essex.

I have spoken to Tommy and he is in agreement that I need antibiotics.

[Pinnacle]

Ok here's un update.

So I noticed this problem on 12th June that the big showa was only breathing through one gill, had an inflamed pectral fin muscle and raised scales. The koi was also eating a much smaller amount that usual and had limited range on his mouth (i.e. only opned it half as wide). The koi has also been staying at the surface and not moving for many minutes before a quick lap of the pond. All through the night he would stay about a foot below the surface. I also noticed that the inflamed side saw very little if not any movement on that pectral fin.

On the 14th June I sedated and performed mini surgery by extracting 30-40ml of fluid from the cavity within the pectral area.

This was followed by CT treament of the whole pond at 10g per 1000 gal. The treament was repeated on 15th and again on 16th.

For the last two days the koi is again using both gills and both pectral fins. There is still a small inflamation on that side but the raised scales are now not so bad. The swelling on the muscle also seems to have gone down.

I was all set for the first shot of antibiotics this evening, however I think I will delay this until the weekend and keep a close eye on him.

On Sunday I plan to bowl the koi again and inspect. I will be on standby with antibiotics. If I still see inflamation and swelling of the pec muscle I will sedate and again perform a mini surgery extraction of fluid. I will deep clean the area around the pectral muscle and treat any external redness. I will then seal before the decision as to whether we need to administer a shot is needed.

[James WF10]

how did it get on mate? hope its ok.