This Section Is For Advanced Hobbyists Discussing new original cutting edge Experimental and Trial Treatments and Surgical Techniques, here we take koi health and pond keeping to the next level
First of all I think you are doing to much to often. Stress is a real factor in fish recovery and with the amount of netting treating and injecting, the Koi is far to stressed to even start to heal, reading from your post you have had problems in the past with a mouth problem which is why you are so concerned but the best thing is to treat, keep as good an eye on it as possible, then leave a gap between treatments. If the koi was in a QT then the netting wouldn't be so bad and you would have heat as an added bonus but in the main pond chasing and catching koi causes so much stress to them. I had a mouth problem a few months back with my smallest koi, the only thing it could of damaged itself on was a small piece of pipe which has now been removed, but you will be amased at what they can damage themselves on
You need to treat with good topical treatment and seal it then leave alone so the Koi can heal itself. Clean the wound out with roccal then using a cotton bud dipped in HP (Hydrogen Peroxide 3%) available from chemists, once this has fizzed to clean, clean again with roccal making sure you clean it all. Then paint the wound with the topical teratment I used Duncan's MRF1, then cover the whole area with oraheasive powder and seal, I use Duncans Lock and Seal + let this dry then oraheasive powder and seal again, again let it dry before you return the Koi to the pond. If you havn't got a sealer you can buy Friars Balsam, again available from chemists. Hopefully I have added some photos of my Showa with the damage and I will try and net her today to show you how well it has healed. She had stopped eating and was just staying in one place in the pond when I saw the damage. I hope this has helped and if you havn't got Duncan's stuff try and get some because it does work, WELL.
What have you been cleaning it with have you used HP as per my original post ?
One of the main causes for wounds to spread is they are not cleaned out correctly and some "stuff" is left behind and all that is doing is making things worse. I also personal think you are using to much and many antibiotics as this is something in the correct conditions should heal without the use of antibiotics.
Not sure about the koi clear but i would get hold of some MFR 1 or Mercurochrome and defiantly then once cleaned out and dried i would get the powder on top and lock and seal and then leave alone to settle down for a good three or four days at least. Yes you can CT the pond and depending on your PH would depend on the dose and also if you are around when dosing. This does also depend on what treatments you have already used and when.
Bit of a bummer on the holiday is there anyone who will be able to look in just in case
Thanks for posts guys much appreciated... yes looks very similar kimr. Yes when i first noticed the cheek damage and before i started koi clear i cleaned it out thoroughly with salt and pp, not hp, the wound looks clean to me or do you not think so? Do i want to be cleaning again?
I agree re too much topical as this is my thoughts why its got very bloody all of a sudden...so intend on stopping topical and just leaving to heal with the aid of ct. No issue regards chasing etc as am handy with a net but i do agree its difficult some times your damned if you do or damned if you don...as per my interims it had three/four days between each treatment so i would have thoughts this was about right for topical or should there be a larger gap for my future reference?
Where do i get all these topicals your talking about? So to clarify i should use merchucrome, mrf1 then locnseal?
HP will clean out and burn the crap out and really get in and clean the wound much better than salt and PP.
The wound needs to be 100% clean and then treated and sealed otherwise it can not get any chance of healing and can just get worse and no mater how many injections it will not fix. Each time you treat depending on how the wound is going you may still need to clean so me of the area again it depends on how good/bad the wound is.
The treatments mentioned come from Duncan and i am not sure how many he has left but may be worth a PM to find out.
I would use MFR-1 after cleaning it all out and drying and then give it a good go with the MFR-1 and then sprinkle the powder on the top and blow it off then let it dry off and then lock and seal over the top of that to make sure its sealed.
Like Gazza has said you must clean the area thoroughly and you need to check that there isn't anything in there that is causing it to remain so angry, by saying anything, you are also looking for pieces of bone that maybe exposed and damaged which is dying, this could be why it is not healing. The smallest piece of damaged/dying tissue or bone can cause untold damage. So you really do need to make sure that the wound is clean of everything.
I wasn't able to catch my showa today as the weather has been awful but I only treated the once and as already stated and it cleared up, even I was amazed at how well it cleared up with just the one treatment as it really was nasty and deep. The only thing I can think is your one has broken a piece of bone somehow which is why it is so bad.
If you can't get Duncan's treatments (but I am sure you will be able to) HP Oraheasive powder and Friars Balsam are available from chemists but Duncan's MRF1 and Lock and Seal and Lock and Seal + are brilliant. When you feed your Koi do you put the food in one area and they all come up for it as I have heard they can knock into each other at such a rate they can do quite a bit of damage to each other, which could be how this has happened if there is nothing in the pond to cause this, just a thought, you really would be surprised how they can damage themselves
Good luck and please keep us posted as to how she is doing
I would sedate and then have a good look around the wound and clean it all out with some HP on cotton buds and really work it in there and let it get a good fizz on as this is cleaning out the wound. If there is any dead or decaying skin or flaps i would cut it off/out and just make sure its all as clean as possible and dry it off.
Once dry i would then work in the MFR-1 and really get it in there and don't be shy with it and then again let it dry off and once nice and dry you can then add the lock and seal and dry off and again make sure you get it all covered don't worry about how much you get on just make sure its covered and don't use the brush just dribble it off the brush and don't put it back in the pond till nice and dry.
Gazza so you work both stuff in with cotton buds? or is the locnseal more just spreading on top after working the mrf1 in? Also how long do you leave to dry? Most importantly I always find when out of the pond the koi start to wake up after a couple of mins... is there a way to keep it under better while its out of the pond??
phoxenol - you just need to ensure you dissolve it in the water in advance. It's a bit of a bugger to get dissolved. Prepare the bowl 10 mins in advance, stur, leave, stur, and you'll find the koi goes out quicker.
No as said above I use the cotton buds for cleaning out with HP then make sure it's dry then work the MFR 1 in with a cotton bud as you can give it a good work into the wound. Once this is dry just use the brush on the lock and seal or anything so you dribble it over the wound and let it dry.
If the fish is coming round after a few minutes then it has not been sedated enough for the procedure. When sedating a fish you leave the fish until you can pick it up out of the water supported in the middle and you get no muscle response or movement. Don't worry to much as you will be surprised how long you can leave them in it without any problems and if you have got a lot of work to do just leave them a bit longer.
