Who or what are the carriers of diseases infecting ponds?

[Brockp]

Hi guys

Having done some reading I am still not clear what/who are the main carriers of the common diseases in our fish, especially the parasites.

The bacteria come from multiple sources, bird droppings or just the dust in the air. I have seen that frogs are commonly thought to be the carriers for Dermocystidium but I was wondering what people thought were the carriers for the other common parasites/infections.

I appreciate that new fish could be a common source but I think we all know how to minimise this risk but when I see parasites in an indoor growing on pond I wonder how they get there?

Thoughts, ideas or references to actual experiments or data would be interesting.

Peter

[Geoff9]

Hi Peter
I was under the impression all koi carry parasites but if the koi are under the weather for any reason the parasites take advantage and multiply,Frogs,Newts,bird droppings are also a problem.

Geoff

[Brockp]

Hi Geoff;

I agree with you that bird droppings spread disease, there is plenty of evidence they spread bacteria around but I know of no evidence they spread parasite.

With regards to parasites if our fish carry them all of the time then whenever the fish are weakened it is a random choice as to which parasite would cause a problem.... I tend to get recurrences of the same problem in the outside pond not a series of infections of different parasite. The other point about this is that generally in nature parasites don't need a weakened host to invade so that makes that theory for koi seem a bit odd.

With regards to vectors carry parasites from pond to pond most parasites are quiet choosey about which species they can infest, the most selective being the malaria parasite which can only be carried by the female Anopheles species, one of numerous species (41) of mosquitoes and only by the female. So I would be a bit surprised that the parasites carried to out ponds are spread by a wide variety of creatures.

So the question still remains as to what creatures carry and spread which of the parasites?

Peter

[B.Scott]

In general I feel that with just about everything with the exception of white spot, people tend to be the greatest vector for parasites in our ponds. Generally by adding something that has not or could not be adequately sterilized to the pond. Other then that, amphibians, water fowl (landing in the pond), Possibly pets if they jumped into water and then into the pond. Neighbors (esp children) sometimes add beesties to the pond in the wish to give something they found a good home.

B.Scott

[Duncan]

the bottom line here is did these critters really come in from somewhere or was they there all along?

the truth is we all do scape and microscopic examinations and or treat till we find no parasites but the truth is its not that we have no parasites its that they are undectable and thats big difference

anyone who thinks after X amount of treatments he has eliminated a parasite is deluding him/herself . then one fine day they have gathered enough numbers and conditions are ripe for them to be a problem

if i can sight an example flukes such as vastator and elegans are capable of out competing one another according to the time of year but despited one or the other being eliminated to the other satisfaction the opressed varity will make the come back and rolls get reversed

so i submit your never really get rid you just control them to the point they are undectable

after that you can start looking at other vectors of transmission

dunc

[Brockp]

HI Dunc

Well in that case I guess there is a case for treating the ponds prophylactically to keep the numbers down and stop them reaching a critical mass to cause a problem.

If a pond has recurrent fluke problems or white spot I could see a case for hitting it hard each spring with the appropriate treatment !

Obviously I would be concerned about this as it goes against the ethos of no bug no drug.

Peter

[tomy2ponds]

the bottom line here is did these critters really come in from somewhere or was they there all along?

the truth is we all do scape and microscopic examinations and or treat till we find no parasites but the truth is its not that we have no parasites its that they are undectable and thats big difference

anyone who thinks after X amount of treatments he has eliminated a parasite is deluding him/herself . then one fine day they have gathered enough numbers and conditions are ripe for them to be a problem

if i can sight an example flukes such as vastator and elegans are capable of out competing one another according to the time of year but despited one or the other being eliminated to the other satisfaction the opressed varity will make the come back and rolls get reversed

so i submit your never really get rid you just control them to the point they are undectable

after that you can start looking at other vectors of transmission

dunc

Hi this would make sense as last Autumn just before temps hit 10 DG as usual I did my pre winter scrapes and found nothing in both of my ponds having scraped 5 koi in each pond.Come March my koi were having the odd flash so I scraped and found flukes and trick in both ponds,so this would bear out what Duncan is saying.

[Duncan]

HI Dunc

Well in that case I guess there is a case for treating the ponds prophylactically to keep the numbers down and stop them reaching a critical mass to cause a problem.

If a pond has recurrent fluke problems or white spot I could see a case for hitting it hard each spring with the appropriate treatment !

Obviously I would be concerned about this as it goes against the ethos of no bug no drug.

Peter

well actually no mate if your gonna get a mediaction out every time you see one parasite your gonna be a real busy chappy and if you gonna get the same medication out cuz you think you should biut cant see anything your gonna be doubley busy

dunc

[StuW]

also you run the risk of the parasites building up resistance to said chemicals (as I think Duncan has already said) so the few you miss each time you do a prophylactic treatment would be more and more immune then when they do have a population explosion what are you going to do then??

[sam51]

hi all been reading this post,i do have a couple of questions,if any body wants to awnser.if you have a pond of say 10 koi.you do a scrape.
and find flukes.you then eradicate all flukes.ive been told {i only listen to a certain few people who actually know what there talking about.} that you wont get flukes again if you did eradicate all flukes.
the only way to get them again is by introducing them via a new fish.
so if anybody dissagrees with me thats fine.
so what are actully flukes,and where do they come from.by this i mean where does a fluke start its life.
thanks guys, sam.

[Duncan]

Sam

anyone who tells you you have erradicated flukes and wont get them again unless you introduce a new fish carrying flukes, is milking without a bucket mate!

you wont totally get rid of them and nore should you try or you gonna be busy, busy , busy.


when you cant find any its not that they have gone its that they are undetectable , nothing wrong with that, thats how you want it, and while you fish maintain a great immune system thats how it might remain , the immune system goes south the fluke sense this and go north

this all about eco systems and harmony ying and yang

dunc

[sam51]

hi dunc,i see your point.but if we dose with whatever chemical one wishes to use,as long as we know this will eradicate them.bearing in mind if we kill one fluke we must also kill the rest of them.and if we zap them again 10 to 14 days later,to be sure,then the fish are fluke free.like what i said where do they come from.

[Gazza]

Hi Sam,

No that would not necessarily be the case as some will always live its mother nature keeping things going as some may be lower in the mucus layer and things like that. If you are treating for flukes you should only need to treat once i have seen far to many people treating there ponds more than they need to now days and all this will do is make your parasite harder to the use of these chemicals so there can be a point where you going to make it harder to get rid of them due to over treating.

A few parasites on a fish is not a bad thing its nature they can live with them as long as they are in good condition and healthy and in good water

[sam51]

hi gaz i see both yours and duncans points and thanks for the answers.i now understand this more clearly.its a shame a lot more people
don't know about this subject.then like you said people wouldn't keep throwing chemicals in left right and centre.

[Gazza]

Hi Sam,

Glad we can help and yes its amazing what some people think they need to do to treat their ponds for parasites