Mini Easy

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co2
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Post by co2 »

Sorry just walked in, been up Newcastle but had to see how minni was doing.

I understand what your saying bob but a tds of 250 is still lower than your GH.
And there’s still the majority of the kh plus all other things that would increase the reading.
This doesn’t ad up to me. Sorry.
John
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Post by Gazza »

Bob,

You know what i am going to say...have you calibrated the TDS meter recently as i have found they can and do go out of calibration :wink:
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Post by co2 »

Gazza im not questioning the calibration the readings seem too way of for it to be this.
If the calibration was correct I would expect the pond to look like a bubble bath.if you believe the readings from the water purifier.
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Post by Bob Hart »

Hi Guys,

John - I see what you mean about the GH and TDS readings, hadnt twigged that at first. So somethings not 100%, but a good enough guide.

Gazza - I'd had the meter well over a year when I visited you last Summer, it was spot on then to your super calibrated unit and had never been calibrated ever!

I've changed some water now and the TDS is down to 450, so heading nicely in the right directing. Changed some more water this evening and will check again tomorrow. Just shows doesnt it, need to keep on top of everything all the time.
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Post by Gazza »

I would imagine that also being a smaller system with loads of fish being feed loads don't help Bob.

Mt tanks is at 320 at the moment but i think i can get it a bit lower :lol: Its working very well and i have been putting a fair amount of food in.The old Shower bin seems to do the trick and so far the water is gin clear so the food is OK :D
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Post by Bob Hart »

Fish/food loading - you have it in one. Copied a few emails I had with Mike Snaden, he agrees with you, thought these might interest you though.


Hi Mike,

I dipped my TDS meter in my 450 gallon growing on pond during the week and was really surprised to see it at around 500 (bet that gave you a smile). I recently installed a static K1 system into the front end Vortex to take out some fines, thereafter it pumps up to some stacking boxes as a shower. 3 boxes, first with BHM, then grog, then Glafoam. This Glafoam was some trial media that was made fro shells and a think glass. It made a ‘lump’ media, full of tiny holes, so looked OK to use as a media. My initial thoughts were that somehow the shells in the Glafoam were buffering the KH up and therefore I would get a higher TDS. The tests I done today do not show this and it looks like ‘crap’ in the shower which is the problem.

Turnover is 462 gallons (on 450 capacity), loads of air, loads of food. Food I’m now using is some that Duncan had made up, which he says is full of top ingredients and minerals etc. Just as you’d expect from Dunc, top stuff. There is little waste from this food, although I’ve only been using it for the past 3-4 weeks. Previous food used produced loads of crap, some which got through to the showers, prior to the static K1 being introduced.



Hi Bob,

Can't comment on the Glafoam as I have no idea what it is. As for Grog... in the long term, it won't work, it will just block up and fester. But, given the MHB you already have in the system, I don't think it will be much of a problem.

Your pond KH is quite a lot lower than the fresh water KH, which coupled with the high TDS, means that not enough water is being changed.

The muck on the Shower will have no effect on the TDS at all. Even if you were to somehow remove any dirt on the Shower, and drop it straight into the water, although the water would look frightful, it wouldn't raise the TDS. The TDS would only rise when that dirt gets broken down by bacteria from solid organic waste, into ion (chemical) form, in which case, it is then dissolved, and WILL raise the TDS.

If you change more more water, the organic load which is contributing to the TDS will be diluted. At the same time, because of the higher quantity of fresh water going in, your KH would rise. By doing this over time, I would be happy if the TDS dropped to around 280, with the KH rising to nearer 190.

Thanks for repying Mike,

Say the drop in KH, but as there was still ‘loads’ left I didn’t see it as an issue.

So is there just too much organic load for the filter to cope with do you think? Is the filter converting the load dissolved into the water? I know the Koi and food fed ratio is high for the small amount of water. Will reducing the amount of feeding over a period of time, just lower the TDS? Or is it a water change issue? I could run some water through it to overflow, if I add an overflow!

If Grog will ‘fester’ long term, this is in the shower though. Quoting what you just replied, if it even collected solids/crap/solids in the shower, why would this not be OK, unless it was broken down into dissolved ion form. I always thought that crap in the filter was not good and would be of detriment to the water quality.

Bob,

Ooooohhh... you pose some interesting questions!!! :-)

First, granted, your KH is fine. I would personally be happier to run a KH of around 30ppm, but to to this with your pond, I would have to not change any water at all for months, at which stage the TDS would be through the roof.

In your case, your TDS is telling you that you aren't changing enough water in relation to the loading on the pond. Your KH is reflecting this also.

Doesn't matter what the organic load on the filter is really, as at the end of the day, waste gets continually broken down, some of it into gases, and some into water soluble ions. Basically, if you have a 450 gallon pond, that is stocked and fed as if it were a 3000 gallon pond, then you need to change water as if it were a 3000 gallon pond.

As for grog collecting waste and festering... Take a piece of BHM out, and break it open, or smashed it to a pulp. Then do the same with the Grog. Compare the smell and state of what's inside. If the grog stinks like sulphur, and is blocked full of shite, bin it. It is isn't, keep it for the time being. You are right in respect of waste being trapped on the media not affecting TDS, but you don't want it creating bad bacteria either (smell).
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Post by co2 »

You did ask some good questions there bob.
The TDS relationship has opened my eyes hopefully the easy will contribute greatly to removing the fines before they can get to the stage of increasing the tds.
I don’t think I have ever come across a supply tds reading as yours with such a high combined gh/kh reading is this common I wonder.
So what do we aim for a reading lower than the supply water as a bare minimum?
Doesn’t Maurice use an easy along side the shower with minimum water exchange?
John
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Post by Gazza »

Hi John,

Do you mean how low do we want our TDS I am trying to get down to around 120-150 well i think so anyway.
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Post by Bob Hart »

TDS now 430, so gradually getting there with some water changes each day.

I dont think you'll get the TDS lower than the tap water John. I usually aim to get the pond TDS 20-30 above the tap water TDS.
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Post by Gazza »

It can be done Bob even without RO my water was over 500 and i got the pond down to 450-460
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Post by co2 »

Hi gazza
Not directly. What tds reading in relationship to the kh/gh.
If lower how much lower % wise.
Bob has a reading of 250 to aim for because of his input water reading. Regardless of his kh/gh readings
How does this affect you with your ro.
And ponds that need to be buffered.
No base line reading?
Maybe not the right thread but its all interlinked sorry.
John
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Post by Bob Hart »

Yes Gazza, if you use up all the KH, you could drop it down!

I did have me growing on pond at 170 some while back, but the KH was a lot lower!
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Post by Gazza »

Thats OK just keep an eye on it you know your looking for :D :shock:
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Post by co2 »

Oh bob you snuck in there. You and gazza peas in a pod. :)
Ok I am a slow typer lol. :oops:
And I don’t explain too good oh well. :oops:


Irrespective of kh/gh readings you have a base line of 250 tds.
Ro water come to think of it would also have a base line.

A buffered pond would have a base line on the influx of water but the increased kh/gh readins caused by the buffering would not be deductable from the organic tds level in the pond.
No base line.
John

Ps. Bob Do you think it’s the water changes bringing down the tds on its own. Or do you think the mini is contributing by removing the organics before they dissolve so to speak.
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Post by Gazza »

Me personally i would say it was a bit of each as i am sure when the K1 is agitated you will find some kind dirty stuff in it :lol:

Still that is just the opinion of a Muppet :shock:
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