Block built filter debate

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James Pond
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Block built filter debate

Post by James Pond »

Hi all

Like many of you on here I browse around a few different forums, and I have noticed that many members of the ****** forum use or are planning to build block built filters with large settlement chambers - So, what does everyone think about them, and have any members here got them on their ponds? I'm sure there are a few ****** members lurking that could give is their practical experiences as well.

A few things i've been thinking about.

Considering the space they take up, what makes the settlement areas better than, say, a large vortex of static K1? Also with 1 weekly flush or less there must be a fair build up of crap in the settlement - surely the adage 'if it's in the filters, it's in the pond' applies here? To further that, some have lines of brushes which aren't cleaned for months.

The settlement chambers are typically 8-14ft long - thats a whole lot of space gone that could have been used to make the pond bigger surely?

The general design seems to be settlement - fluid K1 - Jap mat. As K1 is now generally regarded as superior to Jap mat, why not use 2 chambers of fluid k1? Is there a particular reason the jap mat is there?

Does anyone using settlement/block filters take notes of their ORP, TDS etc, if so what readings are you achieving?

And yes I could post this on the ****** site, but I wanted to get opinions and thoughts from people who don't use them as well as those who do.

I'm not planning one incidentally, I havent got the space and static K1 does the job for me, i'm just curious to know what others think.
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Gazza
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Post by Gazza »

Hi James,

Well there are many deferring views on them but as many will say they work and work very well and some will say they are expensive and pain to clean and also waste large amounts of water.

Would i have one No due to the fact the filtration has moved on now and i haven't got the space and even if i did have i would use it for more pond water than filtration :D

I know Bob built his filters 13 years ago (this is a 10,000 gln pond by the way) and i would say they work very well indeed as his water is spot on and he runs a very good ORP & TDS so it works....but and there is always a but he has been trying to change these for a long time just to make them more efficient but i am sure he could explain better than I.
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Post by andyb »

Hi James

Hi Gaz

James I have a theroy on filtration, and to a degree they all work :

Its all about the koi dealerships you visit, I think it's fare to say that the majority of us stay loyal to a small number ( if not just one ) of koi dealership, which themselves promote :

KWB Beadmasters

KWC Aquadines

Yumikoi BHM & showers

Geoff K Nexus K1

****** Block Built

Etc Etc Etc :? :? :?

When building a new pond, I believe all aspects should be considered.

My pond for instance, K1 within vortex to aid mechanical, 4000 galls an hour over my 4 tier shower full of BHM. 3000 galls an hour through a 7700 gall rated Beadmaster.

Skimmer runs through another 4000 gall rated bead @ 3000 galls an hour.

And I only have 4500 galls of water :?

So if it works for the individual, then great, but for me personally block filters taking up all that room naaaaaaaaaaaa. :D

Regards



Andy
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Post by Bob Hart »

Hi James,

Yes as Gazza says I have block built filters, built by myself many many years ago. They are great for settling out any crap, but a bugger to then get it out of the filter easily. For the last few years I've been altering them and I'm still no-where near satisfied. More alterations are now planned.

As others have said why have a huge settlement area, when a far smaller vortex with static K1 would do the job just as well. This would also be far easier and quicker to clean and use less water.

If I were building another pond right now, I would certainly look at Nexus's. Although there is a higher initial outlay, the size is far smaller, so especially if space was a concern, you'd be able to build a bigger pond. I was even wondering yesterday about ripping out my 1400 gallon filter and replacing it with 3 x Nexus 200's.
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Post by James Pond »

Good replies all, I know each individual usually swears by one type of filtration and as Andy says that is usually influenced by the dealer they use.

On any forum though you will find many Nexus users, Bubblebead users, home made easys etc, however it only seems to be the one site that swears by block filters.

Your replies are basically confirming the general notion that block filters and large settlement chambers are outdated now and that things have moved on.

I am still curious as to why so many people with ****** type block filters swear by them and say they give better water than other filters.
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Post by Bob Hart »

James Pond wrote: I am still curious as to why so many people with ****** type block filters swear by them and say they give better water than other filters.
Me as well James
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Gazza
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Post by Gazza »

Hi James,

I have had some good debates with many people about this and some who have had the filters and love em and some that are Nexus dear i say modern filtration users (sorry guys i am not digging at anyone with block filtration) and all say they love em and always say have you tried anything else :?: :?: :?: :?: the answer is normally NO :!:

When building my second pond i was very lucky to have the guidance of some very knowledgeable (that does not mean old :lol: ) people who had built ponds and had all types of filtration and even built them and they all come up with the same conclusion as me,modern (there i go again sorry) filtration is the way to go for all of the reasons in the replies above so that what i did.Well that and i didn't have the room as it was hard enough getting my filters in as it was :D

Now for me i am on a water meter and like to try to keep my pond fairly clean as best i can so i do plenty of water changes so imagine if i was dumping a big settlement chamber :shock: now you could say it wouldn't need changing as often because it settles out but isn't the waste still in the water :?: :?: even if you was to vacuum it out wouldn't it still need to change some water to keep my parameters good :?: :?:

These are all questions i can not give a 100% answer to as i don't have a big settlement chamber but just my best guess :roll: :?
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Post by James Pond »

you've again mentioned one of the main downfalls of a block filter as I see it Gazza, which is that muck in a large settlement chamber is still in the pond system. if this is only flushed once a week or even less, then surely the water cannot be as clean as a vortex/easy/nexus system that is usually flushed several times in the same period.
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Post by tomc »

I don't think many of the block build club flush the settlement chamber that often. Most vac the floor once a week or even less frequently. I believe the theory is that the muck is spread over a large area and has much less probability of going anerobic. Don't have one so can only state what I have read rather than proven. Regs, Tom
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Post by Jules »

As a designer/builder of ponds I have never been guided by what is in "vouge" within the hobby. I use/install what I know works and what will fit in with customers budget and also a system where if the client decides to they can move and take the expensive filters with them along with the other equipment. It makes more financial sense to do this. Block built systems do work that has been proven but I am loathed to give up precious space in a garden and when broken down the equipment/filter media needed to filter your average pool works out to more or less the same price as a Nexus for example once the block built is fibreglassed and fitted out. Difference between the 2? You can take a Nexus/other filter with you when you move or you can sell it and recoup some revenue.
I am a believer in getting waste out and not letting it settle and stay in the system.

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Post by Dave T »

Hi

Im running a block filter on my pond.
You ask what tempted me to build a block filter...The pond was built during the summer of 2005 and I had great difficulty in selecting a suitable filter due to the fact I couldnt bring myself to fork out 2K on a system that looked like a glorified piece of plastic to clean water.Blocks pipes media valves I built the filter for about 1k. I suppose its all about pennies in the pocket at the end of the day and having the room to use such a large filter.

Before I built the pond I visited ponds with nexus units, sieves, bead filters all doing what there supposed to do. I also did some searches and visited some fish farms to see how they manage there filteration.
Having visited & spoken to the guys at a local wild carp farm they were gobsmacked when I showed them a nexus & price in a magazine.I was advised not to waste my money.They used huge settlement filters and huge bio chambers all turned over with low head screw pumps (extremely efficient). Although I have never been to Japan I believe the same settlement & large bio method is widely used by many of the breeders there.
All I can say is that my system works very well with a 12ft x3ftx3ft with settlement, the waste is spread out evenly over the floor of the settlement chamber which I clean out about once every 2 months during the summer, the waste degrades very well and is full of all kinds of wildlife and is a haven for rotifiers (great for gowing fry in).
I had one hit of blanket weed in February this year treated once and it hasnt come back since.You ask would I change the system thats currenlty in place...no I wouldnt its trouble free and can handle any amount of food I throw at it with crystal clear water down at 6ft... Although I dont have any show winning koi the filter suits all my requirements.

All I can say is if anyone is planning a block filter they MUST to their homework first, if you build one and it doesnt work its down to poor planning and nothing else and you have yourself to blame..... if you have the garden space definately its not an option to be stuffed at.

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... ct%202.jpg[/img]
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Post by James Pond »

Good post Dave, good to get an opinion from someone that is using one. I don't suppose you have any typical ORP or TDS readings for your pond? (I am curious to know what 'measured' cleanliness can be achieved with a good block system as yours obviously is)
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Post by Dave T »

James,

I dont have any TDS or ORP readings. TDS for the general area is running at 150, Id say the pond is not much more than this,water passes over the settled waste not through it :idea: Im told this is the key to settlement filters.
Have to say I have tried hard not to buy a TDS & ORP meter as I could end up spiraling into becoming obsessed with water parameters.
The water looks good and clear also the koi are thriving thats all that matters to me.
If anyone wants to loan me some meters Id gladly take some readings and send them back. :wink:
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Post by Shaun »

Hi All (Koi Questers)
This is my first posting on this board, but have been watching with interest: so go easy on me please.

I am also running block built filters on my pond which has been up and running now nearly two years.
I must say this has been the best decision I have made, my settlement chamber is 8ft x3ft K1 chamber is 3x3 and jap matt chamber is 3x3. What I like about it is the low maintenance of it, can be left for 3-4 weeks with no increase in readings of Ammonia or Nitrite but I still keep to my routine of flushing it out every two weeks in the summer and every 4-6 weeks in the winter and also keeps the water crystal clear.
In the settlement chamber the muck does seem to settle along the length of the floor in a thin layer, but some of the bigger particles settle about 1-2ft in front of the 4â€Â
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Post by Gazza »

Hi Shaun,

Thanks for taking the time to post as this it what this site is all about as the more of us that can comment on what we have or do and how it works helps many others :D

As i have said above unfortunately i have never been able to have block built filters due to never having a garden big enough so i can only give my view.I have always been on a water meter as well and think if i had a large settlement i would end up using even more water which costs enough as it is :shock:
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