I wish I had taken to the internet earlier than I did, I may have shortened the learning curve! Having said that I do struggle to take everything I read as fact, I think lessons are not just learned but remembered when we learn them ourselves. I do though take comfort from the fact that science and tribulations have lead others to the same place as myself.
I think sometimes we assume we are the only one's on a particular path, the internet is a great awakener.
Chi
Chi hows the UV & ORP
Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
Definitely both elements Dave, but the degree of swing is dependent on how efficient the whole system is.
For example, my day to night differential is only a few points, five max. This is because I've gone a little further along the path, if you wish to progress further you now need to consider a few things which will bring you to the same place.
Do you use RO?, if not you probably should.
Do you have excellent to total control of the environment?
By this I mean things like a covered Pergola with solid roof, and dependant on sun direction and exposure some side screening. I use wooden venetian blinds on one side and one end of the pond, (Argos) this gives me superb control of the photsynthesis elements for example, it can also look very attractive. Control of algae is essential if you are to reduce these swings.
Do you have an auto feeder?
These can contribute to a more balanced pond, I have mine set to feed every two hours 8 times per day over 16 hours in the summer, every 4 hours over 16 hours winter.
Are your filters removing all Ammonia and Nitrites?
What are your Nitrate levels?
Are your filters removing fines quickly during the day? My Orp for example will drop 5 to 8 points when feeding, but returns to normal within 90 minutes to two hours.
Temperature effects Orp / REDOX also, are you heated?
These are examples of the fine tuning required to achieve the best possible stability, there will be others in some ponds but these are the most likely elements to address.
Take the easiest for you at this time, see the benefit, which will encourage you to attack the rest.
320 to 340 ish is a good ORP reading Dave, but I believe the benefits really start at 360+.
If the Titanium balls are as effective as Mark G thinks I shall be over 400 ORP / REDOX very soon.
Chi
For example, my day to night differential is only a few points, five max. This is because I've gone a little further along the path, if you wish to progress further you now need to consider a few things which will bring you to the same place.
Do you use RO?, if not you probably should.
Do you have excellent to total control of the environment?
By this I mean things like a covered Pergola with solid roof, and dependant on sun direction and exposure some side screening. I use wooden venetian blinds on one side and one end of the pond, (Argos) this gives me superb control of the photsynthesis elements for example, it can also look very attractive. Control of algae is essential if you are to reduce these swings.
Do you have an auto feeder?
These can contribute to a more balanced pond, I have mine set to feed every two hours 8 times per day over 16 hours in the summer, every 4 hours over 16 hours winter.
Are your filters removing all Ammonia and Nitrites?
What are your Nitrate levels?
Are your filters removing fines quickly during the day? My Orp for example will drop 5 to 8 points when feeding, but returns to normal within 90 minutes to two hours.
Temperature effects Orp / REDOX also, are you heated?
These are examples of the fine tuning required to achieve the best possible stability, there will be others in some ponds but these are the most likely elements to address.
Take the easiest for you at this time, see the benefit, which will encourage you to attack the rest.
320 to 340 ish is a good ORP reading Dave, but I believe the benefits really start at 360+.
If the Titanium balls are as effective as Mark G thinks I shall be over 400 ORP / REDOX very soon.
Chi
hi chi
thanks for the advice.
i do have a pagoda above the pond with a polycrab roof,i find the black weed proof membrane work well for shading in the summer months,before the summer i will be extending the pagoda into a fish house to totally enclose the pond as we have a 18 month old daughter.i feel this is the safest way to enclose the pond.
i don't use a auto feeder at the min,my ammonia nitrite are alway zero due to bakki showers on the bottom drains,my nitrate is below 20mgl,i have static k1 on the skimmer line for fines removal.
i have a gas boiler in the filter house,temp at 16deg at the min.
by coincidence my R/O unit arrived this morning so should have that installed later today,did you get a good raise of the ORP once you reached your desired water perms using R/O?
as i have said i have no UV on the system at the min but in the summer i may install a UV with the titanium balls,please keep us informed of your finding if you decide to use them,the initial results posted by mark look encouraging.
cheers Dave.
thanks for the advice.
i do have a pagoda above the pond with a polycrab roof,i find the black weed proof membrane work well for shading in the summer months,before the summer i will be extending the pagoda into a fish house to totally enclose the pond as we have a 18 month old daughter.i feel this is the safest way to enclose the pond.
i don't use a auto feeder at the min,my ammonia nitrite are alway zero due to bakki showers on the bottom drains,my nitrate is below 20mgl,i have static k1 on the skimmer line for fines removal.
i have a gas boiler in the filter house,temp at 16deg at the min.
by coincidence my R/O unit arrived this morning so should have that installed later today,did you get a good raise of the ORP once you reached your desired water perms using R/O?
as i have said i have no UV on the system at the min but in the summer i may install a UV with the titanium balls,please keep us informed of your finding if you decide to use them,the initial results posted by mark look encouraging.
cheers Dave.
Today my ORP / REDOX reached it's highest reading ever, 394, I guess the extended cold period which pushed my water temp down to 16c at one point was responsible.
My current aim is to make a few minor improvements which collectively allow me to maintain a reading between 375 and 400 the year round. I have added some GAC to the top of my small shower filter, I removed the carbon from 2 cartridges meant for the RO system. I used them for a few weeks first but they were not the most efficient design for my system, so they have been recycled, hence the query re refreshing!
On my return from Spain this trip I am of a mind to try the Titanium balls in the UV chamber, I seriously expect these two mods to do the job.
By way of update on the soft water benefits and my continuing motivation, today I removed one of my sisters koi which I had placed in QT following the discovery of the beginnings of an ulcer. The ulcer was cleaned up and trimmed but otherwise untreated, the koi was then placed in QT containing only water from my pond. The tank has it's own box filter, you know the type, nothing was added to the water but a lot of effort was made to maintain the ORP levels between 375 and 385, which barring one dip to 360 for an hour or so (overfeeding by my daughter) was achieved.
I am delighted to say that in 19 days there is only a trace of the wound where the ulcer was, my sister is now a convert and has agreed to open her purse, an event not witnessed by her husband in 24 years!
Chi
My current aim is to make a few minor improvements which collectively allow me to maintain a reading between 375 and 400 the year round. I have added some GAC to the top of my small shower filter, I removed the carbon from 2 cartridges meant for the RO system. I used them for a few weeks first but they were not the most efficient design for my system, so they have been recycled, hence the query re refreshing!
On my return from Spain this trip I am of a mind to try the Titanium balls in the UV chamber, I seriously expect these two mods to do the job.
By way of update on the soft water benefits and my continuing motivation, today I removed one of my sisters koi which I had placed in QT following the discovery of the beginnings of an ulcer. The ulcer was cleaned up and trimmed but otherwise untreated, the koi was then placed in QT containing only water from my pond. The tank has it's own box filter, you know the type, nothing was added to the water but a lot of effort was made to maintain the ORP levels between 375 and 385, which barring one dip to 360 for an hour or so (overfeeding by my daughter) was achieved.
I am delighted to say that in 19 days there is only a trace of the wound where the ulcer was, my sister is now a convert and has agreed to open her purse, an event not witnessed by her husband in 24 years!
Chi
-
Gazza
- architeuthis moderator
- Posts: 5306
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:24 pm
- Location: Essex,UK
- Contact:
You do make me giggle young man...24 years 
Chi i recently had the good fortune young Bob Hart and Des popping round and i was very pleased when Mr Hart said " blimey there are looking good" i think it was Bobs last visit was most probably just when i had started with the RO so to see he has noticed the difference already just goes to show.
Still this may be nothing to do with RO water as many think its hogwash well all i can say is "don't knock it till ya tried it"
Chi i recently had the good fortune young Bob Hart and Des popping round and i was very pleased when Mr Hart said " blimey there are looking good" i think it was
Bobs last visit was most probably just when i had started with the RO so to see he has noticed the difference already just goes to show.Still this may be nothing to do with RO water as many think its hogwash well all i can say is "don't knock it till ya tried it"
Just by way of update, the previously reported high ORP reading of 394 eventually went to 398, then I replaced the covers when the frosts returned. ORP sank to 370 - 380 within days, so just covering reduces the waters ability to keep itself clean. (gas exchange etc).
However, after a week of this I put some GAC into a few old stockings, (I only wear them at weddings and funerals so no holes) which I then sat atop the first shower tray. During the last 3 weeks ORP has recovered to 385 and is still rising slowly, so the GAC appears to be compensating for the covers effect on gas exchange.
All of which begs the question; when the cover is removed will the ORP rise by the same amount it reduced after covering? If it does then my current ORP of 385 will rise to over 400!
Because I wish to conclude this sequence with no risk of confusion, I will not be testing the Titanium balls for a few weeks yet.
Chi
However, after a week of this I put some GAC into a few old stockings, (I only wear them at weddings and funerals so no holes) which I then sat atop the first shower tray. During the last 3 weeks ORP has recovered to 385 and is still rising slowly, so the GAC appears to be compensating for the covers effect on gas exchange.
All of which begs the question; when the cover is removed will the ORP rise by the same amount it reduced after covering? If it does then my current ORP of 385 will rise to over 400!
Because I wish to conclude this sequence with no risk of confusion, I will not be testing the Titanium balls for a few weeks yet.
Chi
Right, things are buzzing along nicely, so status report and update.
The GAC did raise the ORP, it recovered to 398 and occasionally 400, 401 at one point, dropping to 388 or so after feeding. I still have the covers on and I'm convinced I can get more once these are removed. Will return to the Titanium ball test in a few weeks when I've had a period of stability after removing covers, which I expect to do a week on Sunday. So, as I'm returning to Spain for a couple of weeks on the 5th of April, it will probably be the end of April before I commence those Titanium ball tests, sorry for the delay.
Right, to progress things a little
I can state categorically that since reaching the required water parameters, including the high ORP, I have not seen a single sign of problems and the Koi have never been better. The only downside being the cost of food due to the huge increase in appetite, they will take food every hour or so even at temps of 16 to 17c. On the other side of that coin, the reduction in necessary attention and treatments etc, including the fact I've long since ceased adding Genesyz saves enough to cover the extra food I think.
A question for those following the soft water high ORP route, what do you think so far?
current readings:
ORP 397 avg
TDS 80
PH 7.2
Chi
The GAC did raise the ORP, it recovered to 398 and occasionally 400, 401 at one point, dropping to 388 or so after feeding. I still have the covers on and I'm convinced I can get more once these are removed. Will return to the Titanium ball test in a few weeks when I've had a period of stability after removing covers, which I expect to do a week on Sunday. So, as I'm returning to Spain for a couple of weeks on the 5th of April, it will probably be the end of April before I commence those Titanium ball tests, sorry for the delay.
Right, to progress things a little
I can state categorically that since reaching the required water parameters, including the high ORP, I have not seen a single sign of problems and the Koi have never been better. The only downside being the cost of food due to the huge increase in appetite, they will take food every hour or so even at temps of 16 to 17c. On the other side of that coin, the reduction in necessary attention and treatments etc, including the fact I've long since ceased adding Genesyz saves enough to cover the extra food I think.
A question for those following the soft water high ORP route, what do you think so far?
current readings:
ORP 397 avg
TDS 80
PH 7.2
Chi
