Air Up Lifts

[Andy H]

Ha, my mind sometimes wanders and doesnt come back!!!

I am pushing through cl1 on QT cos I have to but pumping out of last chamber.
But at least the "Airlift" solution solved this problem.

[TicToc]

Jane thanks for update. Crumbs, Hubby seems to have thought and tried everything.

Andy – Explaining Boyles Law is akin to the offside rule in football for me. Also agree with Jane’s Hubby keep it simple. Your right Bubbles get bigger as they rise.

The method that bests uses gravity in its purest form (push/pull) ought to be the most efficient. Though in this case, it’s not quite that straight forward. I would have assumed the best method would have been the pull...... Did Hubby try the push Jane? Would be really interested to read more from estanque_koi (Diego) and Jose Frutos - why they opted for the push method? Did he have a theory/reason or just followed a train of thought which on re-reading the thread again seems to be the case? Hope either can reply when not too busy.

Jane, I appreciate/accept Hubby needs air stones to regulate the flow from the air pump.

A while back on another thread we were reviewing the most efficient pumps -v- so called claimed electricity usage. This included whether we could generate additional power, a dual use, from the pumped water returning to our ponds. I contacted several Professors to see if micro/nano paddles would work as a secondary power source and in short they all repeated the same thing back to me in the simplest form –‘ There are no free lunches’. Technically it could work though by increasing the pumps work rate or using a stronger pump defeats the object of the exercise.
Returning back to air lifts swiftly, the air pumps current purpose is to the move water, a secondary aspect is the oxidation. Given the enormous energy savings why has no one developed this concept further? I’m half way through a pond build and thinking what I ought to be doing now in preparation for making air lifts later. No free lunches indeed... there’s one in the eye to the Academics.

Regards,
TicToc

[vippymini]

the main quest for our pond was to run it using less than 200watts and thus far it is. (excluding UV which is only on for a couple of days when needed)
if you want to use either method, it is now you need to decide one way or the other.
for the push method you need the filters about an inch higher than the pond so that water flowing from the 4" bottom drain pipe where you have the uplift can then flow through the filter and back to the pond.
for the pull method you can keep the traditional filter set up and just attach seperate uplift boxes to the side of the pond instead of a pump. then plumb a 4"pipe form the end of the filter to the uplift box.
either way you need to keep your pipe lengths to a minimum. our pond hasn't any more than 10".
hubby has some more ideas on how to use 4" pipes on the pull system but as yet is unwilling to put them on our pond. he says he spent enough time on it so far, hes not going to go and change it now.
it involves putting a collar plate round the uplifts to guide the water back to the pond... instead of a 90 deg bend.

[TicToc]

Thanks For that Vippymini & Hubby,

Might want to PM you when a little more organised and fibreglass is eventually in place if that's OK?

Tickers

[vippymini]

thats fine, but youll need to make sure what you are doing with regards to filtration type and position before you fibreglass because there will be a need to cut out a small section of the top of the pond wall to remove any restrictions in getting the water back to the pond. last thing you want to do is take a grinder and chisel to your newly fibreglassed pond.
plus you can get the person who fibreglasses the pond to do all the extras to join the filters to the pond at the same time

[okome]

Hallo Guys
At last my pond is up and working, even though not so good as I thought it would. Maybe you guys can help me?
I’ve tried to distribute the air even to the pipes with an airline with 4 “intakes” and 14 “outs”. 9mm airline, 52” down the pipes and no air stone(as the Spanish gentleman). But, surprise or maybe no surprise, because I know how hard it is to make things even in a water or airsystem, water just came up from 4 pipes. When I pulled in one of the airlines, water came up from another pipe of course. Felt like I was tuning a church organ, mission impossible. Help me out please. Small air stones at the end of the airline?14 air flow gauges? Bigger air pump(40w, 3500L/h right now)?
Elias

[vippymini]

i thnk you need to rehink your plumbing for the air. its fairly easy to balance two uplifts from one airpump, three or four gets a bit difficult any more as youve found is just stupid......
if i read it right you have 4 air pumps trying to run 14 uplifts .

try plumbing it so each pump runs just two uplifts. i think with the amount of water each uplift can get through you dont need all 14.

hope this helps..

p.s. love the pond...got any more pictures?

[okome]

Hallo Vippymini.
Sorry, but it´s the language barrier. My Swedish is much better. It´s one 40w pump, hooked up on the airline on 4 different places, trying to distribute the air even on that ellipse of airline you can se on the picture called “Airliften”. I´ve tried to copy the Spanish gentleman earlier on this thread: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_ur ... =Translate
How does he balance his pump with 14 pipes? It ain´t easy to do that with 14 air flow gauges. It´s like tuning the church organ.
Here is a couple of pictures from the pond. It´s my first. My favorit pond is right here: http://koishack.com/forums/index.php?sh ... 8814&st=40

[stuart t]

Try running the air-lines in parallel not in series and I'd have a small airstone on the end of each line.

Stuart

[okome]

Thanks Stuart, I´ll try that. I just wondering how the Spanish gentleman balanced his system without airstones? Nothing about that in the article, what I can se? With airstones it´s a loss of energy, a higher cost to initiate the system and for my system, a risk of dropping the airstones and blocking the whole thing(Murphy’s law). If the Spanish gentleman could do it, I can. Simple, cheap and easy.
Elias 

[Limey]

I think this thread is terrific, and has easily persuaded me to incorporate air lifts into my Pond build next year.

There is just one thing that troubles me... with all the current wisdom on pond volume turn over its trying to work out what actual turn over is being achieved.

I have a suggestio that is kind of crude and not sure how it would in practise but here goes anyway....

Is it possible to have a drum or box of some kind that you measure a known amount of gallonage into marking the insides with say marker pen - problem I see is size needed... buyoncy could maybe achieved by half filling it...? Then positioning under the outflow for a set time. So eg a 50 gal container half filled... run it for 15 secs and see amount 'caught' - so say 20 gals that would be 40 gals a min 2400 glas an hour... likely to be a bit awkward to actually do and am sure someone else will have a better idea heh. Maybe do it 5 times because of spills missed bits heh... to get an average to give a reasonable estimate that may not be bang on but would give an idea?

Apart from not knowing flow rate this is def something I want to use in my pond build.

Regards Dave

[Andy H]

Yep just get and empty container catching the water for a minute then calculate. Only way to do it really.

[Limey]

well if its pushing 5000 gals an hour say which is whats wanted for a 5000 gal pond yes? then thats over 70 gals a mninute... I couldn't hold a container that size in place and most def couldn't do anything with it even half full heh... was thinking maybe a 50 gal container half full for bouyancy and seeing what was collected in 15 secs which may be doable and repeating to get an average because of splash... not very scientific heh but am very interested in finding out the sort of flow rate... have to say it looks really impressive and def gonna incorporate it - am very sure there are others far cleverer than me have a better idea... am not a very practical person a bit of a heath robinson self taught by keeping koi .

[Bob Hart]

3-gallon bucket, time it in seconds how it takes to fill it and calculate it from there. Do it 5 times and work out the average

[Limey]

If pushing a high volume wouldn't 3 gal bucket be too small? Bounce out etc... at 5000 gals an hour it would take just over about 2 secs to fill? Even at half that rate less than 5 secs? Rate of flow I have seen on examples seemed to be considerable, I don't know and think maybe my 50 gall suggestion is a little big maybe heh Hope someone with a set up has a go anyway.