Are the koi that you buy from dealers home breed or Japanese as you only have their word for it
“I am not knocking at any home breed koi breeders as there are 2 good breeders that I know off )
He can tell you anything I’m not saying that home breed koi from well known English koi are substandard far from it
A dealer can also sell you Israeli koi and not let you know and possibly say that they are jap breed we as the punter have only their word for it.
When I first started in koi keeping the only place I knew I could buy koi was from the garden centre, and although they state their koi are from Japan I have 3 in my pond that no way on earth did they come from Japan, they just do not grow, koi I have had for less time and I do know are from Japan have grown at least four time's bigger than the garden centre koi, and they were only babie's when I got them. So far in my pond I have koi from Japan, Eygpt, Asia and now some British bred koi , and even the koi I bought on sunday are showing sign's that they are just so much better than these garden centre koi.
Hi,
This may sound silly, but is it safe to mix the koi? That is, to keep English with Japanese, or any other configuration. I only ask from a disease point of view... for example, are English koi more hardy than Japanese? and if so where do the Israilies fit in on the toughness chart?
I can see you line of thought. In principal it doesn't matter as you should have exposed any new koi to a naive fish from you pond while it's in quarantine. After that its all the same. I might add that your "British" koi are all bred from Japanese stock making it more expat than British.
Have to agree with your comments regarding top quality show koi - English breeders are still a way behind the Japanese.
However, when you look at the rate of progress English breeders have made recently (I'm only in my third year of keeping koi and have noticed the improvements) you have to admit they're catching up fast!
This is a Cuttlebrook Ko Farm youngster. Only 21cm, but (in my opinion) has as much potential as the majority of Japanese bred koi.
In my opinion, the best way to ensure the recent improvements in English koi continue is for us to support the English breeders and buy from them! When you consider the difference in quality is reducing much quicker than the difference in cost, I struggle to understand why so many people are still anti-English bred koi.
A koi outlet not too far from me is selling "none" japanese koi, some are very low quality and others are not too bad but you can see a visible difference in them. The prices he is quoteing are somewhat high and I have seen better quality japanese koi at cheaper prices.
At the end of the day "trust" forms a big par when purchasing anything koi related. Stick to one outlet then if there is any problems you know where they may have originated from.
"You don't buy a merc and go to a skoda garage for it to be serviced"
Maurice if I lived nearer you I would certainly purchase your koi which you have bred yourself, it matters not to me where the koi originate from, some people are puritans and you may never change there purchasing habits..............or will you
Over the last months I have watched your web pages, read what people have had to say about your koi on there visits and in the chat rooms on other koi related web sites all say the same excellent, high standards etc etc..............need I say more, myself I am still learning and will be for many a day.
The picture you are showing no matter what or where it originates from matters not to me its a lovely young koi, if its one of yours all the better...........
All I say is keep up the outstanding work....................
The koi that you have put on this thread is a British bread koi by your self and I would say that you and Cuttlebrooks are the two that are mentioned at the start of this thread “very good English koi breedersâ€Â
Maurice, I don't feel that's a fair question. The point is that the Japanese have koi over the whole spectrum including the very top top of the line fish, Israeli, English and American bred koi do not (yet). This is by no means a reason not to try.
It all boils down to what grade of fish you want and how much dosh you are willing to part with. We all know that pond grade represent 95% of the fish sold in the trade BUT to the breeders the represent possibly only 15%- 20% of his turnover. Non tategoi fish are cheap. They are sold by breeders for anything from a few dollars a pound to several hundred dollars each. A breeder that wants to be successful needs to be able to produce the top of the range fish of be doomed to mass production of mediocre fish to make ends meet. This is the course the Israelis have gone for. If it swims and has all it's fins it's a keeper. Making it the Japanese way is much tougher but I feel more rewarding in the long run. Many breeders outside of Japan are aiming to reach this but I don't feel anyone has come out with fish in the very top position as of yet. Very nice fish, yes! Top fish... eventually I would hope so!
Scotty
For the most of us,Koi keeping is a hobby,and we can't afford big bucks for a fish,so we compromise,we try and get the next best thing for peanuts,and hope we get a winner or two. I've been to Both Maurices and to Mark and Lisa's,they have some great fish for the hobbiest,having not been to Japan,i have no comparisson. I can however say,i have bought 'Japanese' Koi some costing me hundreds,and i have bought from both of the English Koi farms,mentioned,i feel i have got a better deal from the Koi farms,than from the dealers. The reason being,i put fish in my ponds that i like,and not what the purests say i should have. Maybe one day i'll be rich,and my trends may change,but i wouldn't hold your breath.
This is such a contentious issue that I tend not to comment normally. It is always best to let our Nishikigoi speak for themselves.
We recently bought five 5-6 inch Shiro Utsuri to use as future brood fish. As they are so small we put them in our fish tank with some fish that we rescued from the puddles left in the nursery ponds when we drained them down last year. I took them out today to photograph them. These Tategoi tosai are from Kaneko (Omosako bloodline). Oh, and by the way, there’s one of ours in there too, just to highlight the enormous gap in quality that remains between English bred and Japanese quality nishikigoi.
I hope that one day we also will be able to breed Shiro Utsuri to the same high standard as Kaneko and that most of all, such an achievement will be recognised.
Enjoy.
Lisa
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Well looking at those i would definatly buy one, but the again Lisa you know i have a soft spot for shiro utsuri.
My personal opinion is that i have no preference whether they are japanese or english, if its shape and configuration is good its still a quality koi, i think its just a stigma people have as the hobby originates from japan that they think the only koi to keep are japanese, why aren't English koi still Japanese, the bloodline would generate back to those anyway, so are we really talking about fish bred in Japan rarther that England..?
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